One Synth Challenge #76: Mantra Evo (Syntax Project Wins!)

[syntaxproject]

VOTED!

Well, I look at it another way and (currently) see the scores as relative rather than absolute.

One reason is that it maximizes the impact of my vote which seems more fair to the ones I put on top scores. Utilizing the full spectrum also guards slightly against strategic voting.

-SNIP-

So, the 1's I give this month should not be seen as "this track is terrible " but rather "these were my least favorites this month".

This is the same way I scored this month.
I've listened to each track at least a couple of times. After initial voting, I've noticed that my scores strongly deviated towards upper scores. So I had to relisten and adjust the scores the second time around. That means I had to reduce the score for some tracks. Now they are spread more evenly.
Since that also means I've put a few tracks in the "1" category, I don't want you to think that I think these tracks were horrible. Especially considering how not friendly this month's synth was. I've tried to explain on each track in the soundcloud comments what I've found interesting or found lacking.

[animehaus]

Voted

[Taron]

Thanks, wag, I'm glad you said that.
See, I love the friendliness of the "contest", because I get everybody's gems and take them all in with total joy and real appreciation. Yes, sure, I'd freak out, if I ever get a track up there, all jumpy and stuff , but it pales against my love for being with other musicians here...I can't tell you guys that enough. I didn't know just how tired I was to be a vacuum musician (eeerrrrr, that sounds fascinating, now that I wrote it down, hahaha...pfffffvvvat ever that might sound like?!)...but you know what I mean. The musician I am no longer feels marooned.

[wagtunes]

Thanks, wag, I'm glad you said that.
See, I love the friendliness of the "contest", because I get everybody's gems and take them all in with total joy and real appreciation. Yes, sure, I'd freak out, if I ever get a track up there, all jumpy and stuff , but it pales against my love for being with other musicians here...I can't tell you guys that enough. I didn't know just how tired I was to be a vacuum musician (eeerrrrr, that sounds fascinating, now that I wrote it down, hahaha...pfffffvvvat ever that might sound like?!)...but you know what I mean. The musician I am no longer feels marooned.

I know how you feel. It's great sharing your music with others, even if most don't really like it. The few nice comments I get (very few LOL) make it all worth while.

FTR, I think your stuff is great. So different and refreshing. I think you were one of my 5s this month.

Looking forward to more stuff from you.

[Taron]

AH, well, yes, ah...don't change a thing!

[Mojo42]

Man, I so understand and I'm really with you, but those numbers 1-5 really are just numbers and you can assign to them which ever meaning you wish. At the end they'll get added up to determine some sort of charts. Hit the top 3 (or 5?) and you'll get some generous bonbon. This part of it is really just a game. The most important part I see in it is that each and everyone of us is having creative fun, not to be ranked and possibly rewarded, but to share with each other our music, learn together and from each other how to improve all aspects of music, tease and tickle each other to ever greater understanding for a lot of things, especially mixing in my case, but also ingenuity of arrangement and composition, of course.
What if 7 songs have the exact same number of points, because their awesome excellence was undeniable? Is it then lottery on who fills the top 3 (or 5?).
I had placed 9 5ers in the last OSC, because I just couldn't get myself to put any of them into a less than stunning slot. But who says that 4pnts is "less than stunning?", you know. My favorite of them, for example, was not- uh, eh...forgot the name- the winner.
Anyway... it really is just a game and it's not about the voting or winning, but about the fantastic joy it brings to experience each others musicality. I love it and consider that the biggest trophy!

By the way, I'm a massive sucker for progressive rock, too, and love the original Genesis as well. Marillion kind of took over what the original Genesis started, I think, until they've also changed lead singers and sort of...ah...never mind. But I'm a scene-retard, no clue about bands and such, because I always rather made music almost reclusive for the most time. If it wasn't for my wife and my friends, I'd never known any other artists, but I'm eternally grateful for being pulled out of my shell at least a little, hehe.
Right now, with all of you, I'm in total candy land, so very happy! So...thank you all!
(Just a little side note)

On little addon: [like] tells the greater truth.

I needed some time before I responded to this.

No, it's not a lottery who ends up winning.

Why?

Because everybody has their own opinion on what's a 5. My 5 may be your 3. Maybe you don't hear the same greatness. Maybe you're a harsher judge. Maybe you're an easier judge. Maybe we don't like the same things.

But if we all judge a track on ITS merits, the track that appeals to the MAJORITY is going to win. The results may be a little closer than they are now, but there WILL be a winner and it won't be a lottery. And if we should happen to have 2 or 3 people tie, so what? What's wrong with that? Should somebody's greatness be downgraded because there HAS to be a best and thus everybody else, no matter how great their track, has to be voted lower?

It's absurd.

Signed

"Hey man, your track is great and normally I'd give it a 5, but I have to pick a favorite and I like this guy's a little better so I'm knocking you down to a 4."

WTF?

I'm sorry, but I have a MAJOR problem with that rationale.

Yep me too

I completely agree to all what you have said here. Good that I don`t need to write this all by myself and that you did the job

wag, you got it all sideways, you know, because you really look at it as if it was a "rating" system. There's a big, massive difference between a "rating" system (5 stars) and a "voting" system, where you determine positions (1st place, 2nd place...).
Granted, this thing is somewhere between those worlds, but you do not determine (nor could you ever) the quality of a track. "WTF" only goes for your unfounded rage for a logic that is far more harmless than you think it is.

That`s a good point!!! It is understandable (your point of view), but if it is harmless is truly the question. It stops to being harmless in the case where each month always the same "favorites" win and nobody else has also a chance to win although his track is not worse and could be easily judged with a 5 too

Not against the ones who win since "100" years the OSC (I don`t mean it personally), but to be honest it starts to bore me and I see a lot of other very talented musicians here which should also get a chance and exactly this strategy not to see it as a rating system like wagtunes does, but see it more like a determining of positions causes that no one else than apart from "you know who" (because they always get a 5, because their tracks are actually mostly 5`s) has a chance to win OSC too. The only way for a more balanced situation would be to join wagtunes point of view.

I know that probably no one is really here for to win, but rather for having fun, finishing a track, enjoying community, but although it is a friendly competition the goal should be to care also little bit about that it is motivating for the artists too in the sense that they can expect to have a chance at least.

Just my 2 cents

[wagtunes]

Here is the ironic part. And I'm not patting myself on the back as some great judge of talent, but each month, with very few exceptions, the tracks I gave the highest scores to ended up in the top 5.

Personally, I think that no matter what system you use, the cream will rise to the top. I'd like to think that I can tell a great track from a crappy track or I've got some serious evaluation problems. I'd also like to think that regardless of what system somebody uses, they too can tell a great track from a crappy one. Otherwise, the OSC would truly be a crap shoot. We wouldn't see the same people winning all the time. The reason we do is because they're THAT good.

I know I can't compete with those people. I listen to their tracks and then listen to mine and, being totally objective with myself, they're nowhere near each other. I don't think my tracks are as bad as some of the scores I've been given (especially with some people giving me 4s and 5s) but overall I definitely agree that certain people here are just that much better than me. It's not even close. I'll have to be reincarnated 100 times over to ever create something as good as that psytrance piece that I'd be stunned if it didn't win.

Again, it's just a personal preference of mine to judge a track on its own merits rather than judge it against the rest of the crowd. But I still would like to think that in the end it doesn't matter.

Submit a kick ass killer track and you'll do well.

Submit a piece of crap and you won't.

[Taron]

Hmm, who's to stop you from giving 5pnts to an underdog that truly deserves it in your eyes?
I completely understand the whole perma-favorite issue with some of those geniuses amongst us, but I also really wouldn't want to miss a single track of theirs.
So, yeah, I believe one major point is to listen beyond the mix, which is not very easy, because those in-your-face masters like Syntax can pretty much hypnotize you with their excellence, haha. He ain't alone at that, just to clarify. Just that when I find myself dancing in my seat, eh...yeah...kind of a tell-tale sign that it's undeniable.

Anyway, yeah, nobody is stopping anybody from picking a purposeful alternative as favorite, really. In fact, you'd help those underdogs ten times over to climb into greater attention by giving them a leg up against the others with one point more, you know.

[wagtunes]

Hmm, who's to stop you from giving 5pnts to an underdog that truly deserves it in your eyes?
I completely understand the whole perma-favorite issue with some of those geniuses amongst us, but I also really wouldn't want to miss a single track of theirs.
So, yeah, I believe one major point is to listen beyond the mix, which is not very easy, because those in-your-face masters like Syntax can pretty much hypnotize you with their excellence, haha. He ain't alone at that, just to clarify. Just that when I find myself dancing in my seat, eh...yeah...kind of a tell-tale sign that it's undeniable.

Anyway, yeah, nobody is stopping anybody from picking a purposeful alternative as favorite, really. In fact, you'd help those underdogs ten times over to climb into greater attention by giving them a leg up against the others with one point more, you know.

And going back to what you said before, let's take those 4 tracks I gave 5s to. Syntax was my favorite. So by rights, I should drop your track and the other 2 tracks to 4s even though on their merits I felt they deserved a 5.

I don't know what one less point would do, but I've seen ties in the contest at 5th place. So it could mean the difference between making it in and not.

It's certainly something to think about.

[Taron]

Especially after what I just said, the suggestion would be to favor one of the underdogs!

[Meakaale]

Voted!

Syntax project for the win! Great production!
Taron - Mantrolls, blew my mind.
Sfiks never besviks* (*besvika = dissapoint) great melodies.

[Taron]

THANKS, Meakaale!

[mehum]

The only way for a more balanced situation would be to join wagtunes point of view.

Hm, I don't understand this position. I'd even argue it's the other way around, that the rating-point-of-view is what potentially creates status quo in the positions. But I won't

[Mojo42]

The only way for a more balanced situation would be to join wagtunes point of view.

Hm, I don't understand this position. I'd even argue it's the other way around, that the rating-point-of-view is what potentially creates status quo in the positions. But I won't

Hm, and I don`t understand why you don`t understand me

Okay I will try it again.
- rating point of view
I guess everbody has it (you too) because everybody need one for to be able to act at all. Seems we all have different rating points of view.

- I discussed here two of this points of view. The one of wagtunes which is to rate each track isolated and so it happens that he gives out more than one 5. Maybe 2 or 3 or 5 or maybe 10 for the case that he thinks that so many tracks actually deserve this rating.

- The other approach is what Taron said to compare the tracks and to create a clear hierarchy in the way to decide what is ones absolutely favorite and to rate all other tracks down for making it most possible that the favorite will be on top, no matter if there are other tracks which also deserves a rating of 5, he simply makes a very personal decision of the most favorite.

If you look at the score sheets you will recognize that the most give out around five 5`s. Some only 3 some 6 or 7 makes an average of five 5`s. This seems to make sense because we also have 5 top positions. But if 3 out of this five 5`s already go to "you know whom" it is pretty clear that only 2 places are left for someone else. That`s just Borg logic

If people would give out more 5`s by simply rate each track isolated and not in this comparative way to vote all other down (although the downrated ones produced a top track too) just for to bring up a few favorites (for sure) then the situation would change in the sense that simply the air would become a bit thinner at the top. Would be more exciting and not soooooooooo....boring

And to be honest: I supposed that the rating system here is actually a rating system, which simply means to give 5 points to what you think deserve 5 points no matter how many that will be in the end.

I also was in the jury at miniature painting contests and there we handled it exactly this way too and also each other jury works exactly this way that each of the person who belongs to the jury gives a certain score to each contestant and they do not give a lower score to anybody who achieved the same result like somebody else just for to push one of those 2 for to win, because that would be pretty unfair and so the result in this case would be a draw and not that one or two persons of the jury make a "personal decision" who should be the winner.

They all give a certain score to each contestant isolated, depending on his/her achievement and the one with the highest score wins, that is completely normal. I don`t understand what is so hard to understand at it that this is the most fair method. It is handled this way since ages everywhere on the world from each jury and that is for good reason. I`m confused, really

[Taron]

Consider the Eurovision concept, too, though. There you can only give one specific amount of points to any contestant. For a "voting" system that is probably the most reliable there is.

Maybe we should at some point just have a thread dedicated to this subject, hahaha...seems like it needs it!?

At the end, it really doesn't matter.

My "current" subjective voting stack...
5 - my personal favorite
4 - tracks that I find fantastic and enjoy a lot (hence: like on soundcloud)
3 - tracks that I consider great for various reasons, not all of which include my liking
2 - tracks that I'd consider to be music, but represent aspiration more than accomplishment
1 - tracks that I don't really understand

That's my rational in a nutshell.