KVR Audio

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:51 pm

Hi! In my continued move back to hardware synthesisers, i have a lot of discovery to do. So i was hoping this topic could be a general resource for any known synths that work in 64 bit AU+VST (dual platform preferable so if i ever need to i can use on my windows laptop also), like the virus ti and roland integra do.

I was investigating motif racks for example, but i spent hours of a single day and got nowhere with yamaha's confusing webpages.. i still don't know which model is what compared to others and what does what. It's crazy.

So i'm hoping to cut some investigation time and just look at stuff that for sure has plug in editor versions. It can transmit audio via analog, that's fine. I will soon have the capability for 16 live synth inputs into a coming dsp interface. I am assigning 4 to integra 2 to virus (virus does audio over USB but to get zero latency when you play it live you really need the analog outs), so that leaves 10 - by no means do i need to fill them all now, and integra has another 4 anyway but i wouldn't mind a bit more variety. So arturia got my interest piqued.

Does anyone use arturia hardware synths and do they integrate properly as plugins for project recall?

And any others you can think of so i can go do some investigation!

Cheers!

werp · Post by **werp** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:02 am

novation ultranova appears as an au in logic. it's an editor only though. also as a vst in other daws. same deal.

werp · Post by **werp** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:04 am

I had an arturia origin keyboard. it didn't have a PC presence. the microbrute doesn't either.

werp · Post by **werp** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:14 am

I guess you could get trendy/expensive and buy an elektron synth too.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:15 am

werp wrote:novation ultranova appears as an au in logic. it's an editor only though. also as a vst in other daws. same deal.

ok but as an editor via usb i presume when i load my project it loads all the right settings? Then i can just bounce to audio when I am ready to mix down.

See the cool thing about each synth being permanently plugged in via analog into the interface is that i can record everything in on go on separate audio tracks - just one pass of whatever length the song is and it's all in logic anyway... so really 5 minutes of workflow disruption on average lol!

So basically all i absolutely *need* is recall when loading the project. Not usb audio. The virus doing that is just a lucky bonus.

I used to own a supernova and i wasn't thrilled with it, i *presume* the ultranova is a modern of age version of that but will now do some investigations.

Thanks so much for the info werp

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:16 am

werp wrote:I had an arturia origin keyboard. it didn't have a PC presence. the microbrute doesn't either.

that sucks! Thanks for saving me time

werp · Post by **werp** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:22 am

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yA3GHNx3O8

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:22 am

werp wrote:I guess you could get trendy/expensive and buy an elektron synth too.

just checked them.. 4 voices for that sort of money, i will pass. that said if it had 12 voices, i would have been very interested.

For drums i am good, realistically they take low to average cpu anyway and samples are perfectly acceptable for drums especially detailed libraries like revolution 909.. it's like the real thing (just an example again).

Also ultrabeat uses nothing and i have a gazillion samples i can load and tweak into it, and have plenty of acoustic stuff. So the hardware synths for me are the main desire.

I must admit if i was a decent keyboard drummer i would have looked at an external machine so i could "jam" with it and "play" rhythms, but I am just not. 25 years doing this now and drums are still my one weak spot. My ex partner used to do everything one line at a time and play them in manually and he was awesome.. you either got it or you don't with that. That's where stuff like toontrack/logic/even idrum were a revolution for guys like me.

goldenanalog · Post by **goldenanalog** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:16 am

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:03 am

I love my Blofeld! Both the synth and the keyboard. Very high quality built with a wonderful manual. There are 3rd party editors for it. I use it as a midi controller together with the Casio PX-5S

My second choice is Pulse 2. Wonderful analog sound with the same high quality built as Blofeld. This is my next purchase for sure!
The other lovely choices if I have the money are: Korg King Korg, Mini MS-20 and Arp odyssey (yes I love Korg

)

stillshaded · Post by **stillshaded** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:45 am

My buddy has an elektron rytm. Best drum machine ever. Sounds fantastic

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:25 am

The problem is guys that I am looking for stuff that has a *plugin* editor.. the most important is AU64 for Logic pro, as realistically that IS the host i use 85% of the time. I only use cubase for material i wrote in 2003-2008 when i used cubase, so i keep it to load old songs, remix, fix up, etc. All new stuff is done on Logic. I also occasionally load cubase to get some inspiration with the chord track but i immediately bounce it to midi and open it in logic

I would have loved the the blofied, tons of patches, and what a great price and sound.. but no plug in editor.

Honestly if i am going to go that way the options open considerably.. i could even get a s/h an1x and get a 3rd party standalone editor - that was my favourite v/a keyboard of all time (that i owned).

That said, if anything *truly* blows me away these days that's 100% digital that sounds analog in hardware, it's the nord lead. I always loved it from version 1, but it was never even remotely affordable (in those days over 4000 AUD). Now it can be had for 2K and i bet i could haggle too. So if i am ever going to go the route of having a synth without a plugin editor, but DOES have a standalone editor with usb, it would be the Nord.

Think aboot it.. every time I make a song, i need to save notes and a file for the standalone editor.. sure it's not as bad as midi sysex dumping days but it's a hassle IMO. The best hardware/DAW fusion is the one where you just load your song and it's all there. And surprisingly, there are a lot more synths that have plug in editors that i thought, in the last 2 hours of searching. Korg have a few, akai MPC looks very exciting and works as a plugin, yes, elektron, Roland have quite a few, virus of course, novation mini/ultra, and i'm still searching.

The key here is to not go crazy like I did with plugins. When i was ALL hardware synths, this is what I had: 2 master keyboards (an1x and a cs1x), yamaha EX5R, roland JV2080, Novation Supernova, Novation Drumstation and BassStation, Emu sampler of some kind, i can't remember the exact model, emu orbit, planet phatt, and a little korg o5WR (sax heaven is my favourite patch ever lol).

Ok that's quite a bit but the point is that i had NO virtual synth plugins, so that was absolutely everything. I made the best music of my life in those days, but i never enjoyed all the project recalls i had to do. It was a cacophony of cables, insert bays, stands, rack enclosures (thankfully i kept those, have two 8 rack portable enclosures in garage i just need to wipe down), pre amps, comps, eq's, verbs, multi fx, and a big ass mackie 32*8 desk..and later ditching that and going into pro tools TDM interfaces - yes, logic on a G3 used to host PT TDM hardware perfectly, they called it DAE in the logic drop down box. As you can imagine, it was something i never want to go back to, i want something in between. Hardware with convenience of insta recall.

I also want to limit myself.. the ti snow is 100% a given as is the integra..

the max i will ever want to have is 8 pieces of hardware synthesis.. ever.. and i plan to take my time in choosing and these things aren't cheap

But yeah if i am going to break the insta recall within logic ethos, it will only be for the nord.. otherwise they have to have plugin editors

lots of research to do, and will have to give myself a pain killer and get to a store so i can sit down for a couple hours and go through some patches

EDIT: Ok i see what you mean, there are au editors for blofeld, 3rd party.. but.. i can't find any that support yosemite.. i can't load mavericks on this mac

parma · Post by **parma** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:36 am

Moog Sub Phatty and Minotaur both have AU editors. I don't have personal experience with them, but something to look in to.

werp · Post by **werp** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:50 am

check the above SonicLab review on the Ultranova. Mine's working fine with Logic (automap 4.9) and another thing that should be important is the feel of the keybed (with aftertouch).
The Ultranova is really quite good.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:56 am

TheoM wrote:
I also want to limit myself.. the ti snow is 100% a given as is the integra..

the max i will ever want to have is 5 pieces of hardware synthesis.. ever.. and i plan to take my time in choosing and these things aren't cheap But yeah if i am going to break the insta recall within logic ethos, it will only be for the nord.. otherwise they have to have plugin editors

lots of research to do, and will have to give myself a pain killer and get to a store so i can sit down for a couple hours and go through some patches

EDIT: Ok i see what you mean, there are au editors for blofeld, 3rd party.. but.. i can't find any that support yosemite.. i can't load mavericks on this mac

This is a good start IMO to know what's really you need and have a good plan.

I think Ti Snow is a great choice, I don't know about Integra really.

Do you have a midi controller? I chose the Blofeld Keyboard not because of the synth only, but because of the synth keys action which when I tested in the shop was better than King Korg and very similar to the Prophet 12 (or 6 I don't remember now which one was). It has Aftertouch of course, but I'm not fond of aftertouch really. I prefer a pedal and map it to aftertouch or even to the mod wheel leaving one hand free for playing with another parameter!
Anyway, the Casio PX weighted keys are still better in velocity accuracy from Blofeld (This is needed for Piano playing as dynamics rules).

What about an analog? Mono analog and Paraphonic analog are affordable (like MS-20 or Pulse 2). But still King Kong as VA can replace Diva IMO. So, you free your computer cpu really a lot. In case of MS-20, digital photos will be nice presets saver

The only thing not covered easily by hardware is the Additive synthesis. I use Loom for that as it is a great synth with reasonable cpu usage. So, you will have few limited helper synths. FM might also be great with plugins.

For hardware, I'm thinking of the sound first and the built quality really. I have bought VSTi editor for Blofeld for $79 (or $75) but I'm not using it at all! I use currently the standalone free one. If I buy Pulse 2 or any other VA or analog synth, I won't buy any editor because no need really! In the case of Blofeld it helps because of the complexity of the synth, (although I'm finding my way more with the unit with time). While, for example, King Korg is so nice to tweak and play with the knobs ...etc that It is no need absolutely for editor.

I planned my setup around what I really want to do from a music. Piano is essential (still beginner stage, hopefully entering the intermediate stage after one year or so). So, I needed a very good Piano action keys and Casio PX-5S was a bargain (second hand but almost new) although I would go for Kawai MP 11 if I had the money

Next I needed to replace my shitty Oxygen 49, so I though to buy either a workstation or a synth with keys. I found that I need Blofeld more than other synths because most of my planned music is like Movies/atmosphere with some rock/pop 80's depeche modey thing! So, Casio PX-5S covers all the Pianos, Organs ..etc while Blofeld covers all a wavetable synth would cover (about 75% of what I want really). What I miss is only real analog sound (mostly for bass/lead/analog effect/feel) so I also don't need that much, Pulse 2 or one of the Korgs I mentioned would be more than enough for me. Well, I don't know what genre(s) of music you want to do. This is a very important for the setup IMO, so you can be very specific about what serve you well in the long run.

I also going back and forth between my desktop and laptop, so what I did is that I bought USB 3 powered hub and I connect the Audio interface, Blofeld, Casio, Mouse, USB contains Waves lisence. So, when I want I just unplug the hub from the desktop and connect it to the laptop. I love this setup as monitors, mini mixer and headphones are connected to the audio interface, so it is just one usb cable to unplug/plug

Update us with your choices, and purchases. I'm curious to see how it is going with you in your setup

I like the hardware to free me little bit from the burden of CPU usage and the 'in the box' thinking. I thought it would cure my GAS as well, but it didn't succeed completely

Still, I won't abandon my hardware any time soon and using the host as a midi/audio sequencer (if I can save my midi composing in it and modulations, then all i need to write a note about the preset used and I'm done, no need for editor to manage it really).

Anyone using arturia hardware instruments? Also, instruments besides virus that have AU editors?