How Would You Rate This Analog Filter Emulation

[chk071]

As mentioned in my previous posts certain other plugins without zero delay feedback filters starting at a certaion Cutoff produce a certain noise that could be also mettallic/ringing or simply ear piercing which is not be normal for proper self oscillation.

True, many digital filters can have that ear piercing, shrill sound at high resonance. Not sure though if that's a thing which has to do with zero delay feedback, or basically with the filter's characteristic in general. I just tried TAL-Noisemaker, as it has both zdf, and non-zdf filters on board (the state variable filters are zdf as far as i know), and on self oscillation, the resonance of the state variable filters sounds indeed a bit smoother, and not as shrill as the one in the non-zdf filters.

[Ingonator]

Im no expert so cant judge the filter based on these samples which dont demonstrate alot to my ears

Well its no problem to provide other clips. On the contrary, in a way i was even expecting people to ask for more, but then again this is KVR, so on the other hand im not really surprised at the way this is going either.

Anyway, im not ready to write it off as a failure yet, so for those who are actually interested in participating (thank you) heres a clip featuring extreme audio-rate modulation of the filter-frequency. The filter itself is set up in the exact same way that it was in the previous clips, only this time it is being modulated by an LFO (which can go HF), and the speed of the LFO is modulated by the decay stage (linear) of an envelope. It starts slow and gets more wild as it progresses. The clip was reduced from over 200MB to 1 minute 21 seconds 30MB to keep the filesize down, but its no problem to provide more.

Download

Like with teh other 2 clips the beginning seems to soudn OK and later it seems to add strange noise that IMO should not be there.

I just compared with Diva using the Minimoog modules and the same self oscilllation settings as in my posts before. Then i used OSc 1 as a filter FM source and tried using different Osc waveforms, different octave settings (down to 32' which is almost like a LFO), differemnt FM amounts (up to maximum) and changing the Cutoff from minimum to maximum.

Like with the "normal" self oscillation in Diva it mostly sounded "pleasing" without metallic/ringing noises and opposing to the beginning of that demo also sounds quite different. The later part of your demo showed some "scratching" noise which i was also not really able to reproduce with Diva.
Proper filter FM does not really seem to produce "metallic" noises like could be done with oscillator FM.

Like with self oscillation Filter FM (or a combination of both) with plugins only seems to work properly when using a zero delay feedback filters or a comparable technology. Bith are extreme filter settings taht older DSP technolgy is not really able to handle properly, at least not over the full Cutoff/Frequency range.

[ENV1]

Theres something i wanted to say about the filter and FM, but id probably say too much.

So what im going to do is let it run until tomorrow, (interest isnt that great anyway so that should be enough), and then post the details, including what i think about the filter and why.

Thanks to all who participated.

[jbuonacc]

... The later part of your demo showed some "scratching" noise which i was also not really able to reproduce with Diva.

ok? i sure wouldn't hold the Diva filters up as some sort of "standard", what's your point?

[Ingonator]

... The later part of your demo showed some "scratching" noise which i was also not really able to reproduce with Diva.

ok? i sure wouldn't hold the Diva filters up as some sort of "standard", what's your point?

I compared the filter FM to both Diva and my real analog Pulse 2 and so far i did niot get the same results as in those demos.
I do think that both Diva and a real analog synth like the Pulse 2 are good "standards" for such comparisons.
With the "normal" self oscillation i was also able to compare to my Korg DW-8000 (which at self oscillation seems to produce a more or less pure Sine wave at the full Cutoff range or note range when filter key tracking is applied).

With the first two demos it seemed to be more obvious that something is going on that should not happen with a real analog or a good analog emulation like e.g. Diva.

Anyway it would be more simple to do such comparisons if we would know which synth was used exactly for those demos and art which settings. Looking forward to that.

[Frantz]

that should not happen with a real analog or a goof emulatiomn like e.g. Diva.

Diva is not a "goof" emulation. This is an outrageous insult!

[Ingonator]

that should not happen with a real analog or a goof emulatiomn like e.g. Diva.

Diva is not a "goof" emulation. This is an outrageous insult!

Oops, a bad typo. I corrected that.

[Frantz]

Oops, a bad typo. I corrected that.

Yes, it was obviously a typo.

[ghettosynth]

... The later part of your demo showed some "scratching" noise which i was also not really able to reproduce with Diva.

ok? i sure wouldn't hold the Diva filters up as some sort of "standard", what's your point?

Well, I think that a lot of people around here do exactly that, at least in terms of audio quality and analogue emulation.

I take your point that just because they don't reproduce some artifact doesn't mean much, but I get the sense that Ingonator is just trying to be reasonably thorough.

[ENV1]

Hi,

Just dropping by to say that i havent forgotten this.

Short version of a long story: The day i posted my last post i was in the process of making another clip when i heard a faint 'screeching' kind of noise coming from my tweeters. (Very very hi-freq.) At first i thought its the filter of the synth distorting, but that wasnt it. So i tried to re-seat the line-out. Pulled it out, plugged it back in, the computer froze. When i rebooted, the mainboard was dead. (And i mean DEAD!) Cause of death: Unknown.

You probably know what followed. Find suitable new hardware, order the stuff, wait until it arrives, assemble everything, reinstall OS/drivers/software, configure everything, etcetera etcetera. Basically the whole 9 yards. Ive got a working system now, but i will have to do another OS reinstall because i need a 'fresh' installation from which i can make a 'master-backup' for whenever i want (or need) to go back to an initial state. (This one is more or less a test-run and has already been 'spoiled' with stuff i installed to test a few things.) Im not sure how soon i will get around to doing it, but the plan is to get it over with at the weekend. I will get back to this thread/topic as soon as everything is in order again.