Official Arturia VCollection5 thread

[ENV1]

Any news on the CS80 bugs? Like the selector for the triangle/sine osc not being functional?

You probably mean the Tri/Saw rocker. Unlike the Square rocker that one is implemented as a slider, i.e. you dont just click on it, you have to drag it up and down like a fader. The only reason i can think of why they would do it like that is that maybe their UI system doesnt support 3-state buttons. (In this case Off, Tri, Saw.)


Anyway, seems like the minimoogs VCO3 inversed ramps bug will be the most persistent bug of all times. (10 years and counting.) They have been informed about it several times, so apparently they just dont care. Difficult to understand, because it shouldnt take longer than 10 minutes to fix. For the record, heres the problem in detail once more. Lets see what comes of it...


Problem

- VCO3 Saw to OSC1/2 Pitch modulation is reversed; up is down and down is up


Details

- When VCO3 Saw is set to RampUp, OSC1/2 Pitch will be ramped downwards

- When VCO3 Saw is set to RampDown, OSC1/2 Pitch will be ramped upwards

- Best audible when VCO3 is running slow, i.e. in LFO mode

- VCF is not affected, here the ramp-direction is already as indicated by the waveform selector


Fix

Swap VCO3s internal SawUp and SawDown routing to VCO1/2 modulation so that the ramp-direction is in accordance with the ramp-direction indicated by the waveform selector.

[beely]

Difficult to understand, because it shouldnt take longer than 10 minutes to fix.

Unfortunately, just because you *think* it might be trivial, doesn't mean it is. What about backwards compatibility? You can't break existing user patches, so you have to come up with a solution for that. And maybe you need to modify all the preset patches too.

As you say, it seems that they likely don't care / don't think it's important enough to dedicate a day of effort to change...

[ke2041]

please reply about the bad installer
thx for the updates.

We have a couple of update for next week, I don't know if we will have time to fix it for that one but we have another round of update schedule for mid June, we will had this fix then.

[ENV1]

Unfortunately, just because you *think* it might be trivial, doesn't mean it is.

But then again, just because you *think* it might not be trivial, doesnt mean that it isnt either.

Chances are that these 2 assignments are even in the same line of code.

What about backwards compatibility? You can't break existing user patches, so you have to come up with a solution for that.

Yeah, like ignoring it.

After all who cares if stuff is running in reverse?

As you say, it seems that they likely don't care / don't think it's important enough to dedicate a day of effort to change...

Ill go along with the first part of the sentence.

As for the second part: If something is obviously wrong it should automatically be important enough to a dev for them to go ahead and fix it ASAP, no matter if it takes 10 minutes, an hour, or even a day. (Which of course is a preposterous thought considering the scope of the issue in this case.) Otherwise there has to be something wrong with that devs business philosophy because id say it is pretty darn normal for everyone (who isnt just arguing for arguing sake) to be wanting flaw-free products that function properly, especially when they have payed, or are supposed to be paying, a good chunk of money for that product. So if the dev doesnt care to make inaccurate things accurate, a lot of people will say 'screw that' and invest their money with some other dev instead. So for that reason alone the dev better care, if you know what i mean.

[wagtunes]

Unfortunately, just because you *think* it might be trivial, doesn't mean it is.

But then again, just because you *think* it might not be trivial, doesnt mean that it isnt either.

Chances are that these 2 assignments are even in the same line of code.

What about backwards compatibility? You can't break existing user patches, so you have to come up with a solution for that.

Yeah, like ignoring it.

After all who cares if stuff is running in reverse?

As you say, it seems that they likely don't care / don't think it's important enough to dedicate a day of effort to change...

Ill go along with the first part of the sentence.

As for the second part: If something is obviously wrong it should automatically be important enough to a dev for them to go ahead and fix it ASAP, no matter if it takes 10 minutes, an hour, or even a day. (Which of course is a preposterous thought considering the scope of the issue in this case.) Otherwise there has to be something wrong with that devs business philosophy because id say it is pretty darn normal for everyone (who isnt just arguing for arguing sake) to be wanting flaw-free products that function properly, especially when they have payed, or are supposed to be paying, a good chunk of money for that product. So if the dev doesnt care to make inaccurate things accurate, a lot of people will say 'screw that' and invest their money with some other dev instead. So for that reason alone the dev better care, if you know what i mean.

Actually, it really comes down to how many customers they're losing by not making a particular bug fix. As Arturia is the only one who has that data, and assuming that they're at least intelligent enough to want to stay in business, I'd say it's a pretty good guess that this particular bug isn't costing them much business at all, if any. I didn't even know the bug exists. And now that I do, eh, so what? To me, this kind of bug just isn't important enough to care about. Now, if the mod wheel didn't work, that would be a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't buy the product.

So until we know for a fact that this bug is costing them a significant amount of business, no, they don't really have to care or do anything about it.

That is, unfortunately, the reality of running a business.

[beely]

As for the second part: If something is obviously wrong it should automatically be important enough to a dev for them to go ahead and fix it ASAP, no matter if it takes 10 minutes, an hour, or even a day.

I'm sure their bug tracker is full of stuff (especially given that the V5 release looks quite unpolished and a bit rushed in many ways). Any dev has to prioritise where to put development efforts. If you have 200 bugs to fix, and 100 or them are minor, and ten are significant, then the minor ones have to wait.

It's very common for minor things to be pre-empted by more important priorities for years, unless the dev makes some effort to tackle them outside of "normal" development duties.

Of course, you can take the default assumption that most developers are lazy, don't care about issues, and always have infinite resources to do/fix everything at once, but back in the real world, things aren't that simple...

[ENV1]

I didn't even know the bug exists. And now that I do, eh, so what? To me, this kind of bug just isn't important enough to care about.

Thats probably what theyre counting on.

And that in turn is probably why it doesnt get fixed.

So until we know for a fact that this bug is costing them a significant amount of business, no, they don't really have to care or do anything about it.

That is, unfortunately, the reality of running a business.

May well be, but itd still be a bad attitude towards customers who want things functioning properly. In fact to say 'we dont care about things not functioning properly unless it affects our bottomline' is about the badest attitude i can personally think of, and im sure many people would steer clear of such a dev only for that reason alone.



But anyway, no point in arguing about it. Either they fix it or they dont.

Its their business, all that users can do is report errors to them and thats been done.

[vic_france]

anyways.. thank you Arturia for these speedy hotfixes (especially the polyphony on the Wurli )

[exmatproton]

Any news on the CS80 bugs? Like the selector for the triangle/sine osc not being functional?

You probably mean the Tri/Saw rocker. Unlike the Square rocker that one is implemented as a slider, i.e. you dont just click on it, you have to drag it up and down like a fader. The only reason i can think of why they would do it like that is that maybe their UI system doesnt support 3-state buttons. (In this case Off, Tri, Saw.)


Anyway, seems like the minimoogs VCO3 inversed ramps bug will be the most persistent bug of all times. (10 years and counting.) They have been informed about it several times, so apparently they just dont care. Difficult to understand, because it shouldnt take longer than 10 minutes to fix. For the record, heres the problem in detail once more. Lets see what comes of it...


Problem

- VCO3 Saw to OSC1/2 Pitch modulation is reversed; up is down and down is up


Details

- When VCO3 Saw is set to RampUp, OSC1/2 Pitch will be ramped downwards

- When VCO3 Saw is set to RampDown, OSC1/2 Pitch will be ramped upwards

- Best audible when VCO3 is running slow, i.e. in LFO mode

- VCF is not affected, here the ramp-direction is already as indicated by the waveform selector


Fix

Swap VCO3s internal SawUp and SawDown routing to VCO1/2 modulation so that the ramp-direction is in accordance with the ramp-direction indicated by the waveform selector.

Yeah, ment these two buttons;

cs80 tri saw.PNG

[ENV1]

Yeah, ment these two buttons;

cs80 tri saw.PNG

Like i said, click and drag like you would a slider.

No idea if theyve implemented them like that by mistake or deliberately or because there was no other way, (i.e. it may or may not be a bug, i dont know), but thats how these 2 rockers work in the new version.

[Caine123]

please reply about the bad installer
thx for the updates.

We have a couple of update for next week, I don't know if we will have time to fix it for that one but we have another round of update schedule for mid June, we will had this fix then.

thanks a lot Kevin, i appreciate it that you seem to really care for your customers now!
keep it up like that and i'm sure Arturia will benefit from it .

[exmatproton]

Yeah, ment these two buttons;

cs80 tri saw.PNG

Like i said, click and drag like you would a slider.

No idea if theyve implemented them like that by mistake or deliberately or because there was no other way, (i.e. it may or may not be a bug, i dont know), but thats how these 2 rockers work in the new version.

I know they act like sliders. However, it seems a bug, since they look like buttons, no other button on all the UI's (package wide) act like sliders and that's why i was referring to those as bugs. If they say these aren't bugs, they should update the UI so they look like sliders.

[ENV1]

Well you wrote 'not being functional' so to me it sounded like you didnt know that they function like sliders.


Anyhow, bug or not bug is something only the UI designer can ultimately answer. Maybe a Arturia rep can ask and report back whether or not its as intended. Personally i could live with either approach, i am way more bugged by things like an inversed Saw ramp which makes VCO modulation go this way and VCF modulation go that way.

[Baptiste Arturia]

Guys,

The three positions switch acting as a slider was a bug, this will be fixed in the next update of the CS80.

[ENV1]

There you go.

Mystery solved.

Thanks for letting us know.