Behringer Analog Synth

[Shabdahbriah]

Actually, if you order [speaking of inside the Continental USA] from a retailer like Musician's Friend, Sweetwater, etc., and, you're not within the state where they are based, you pay no sales tax, and, often, no shipping. So, in that case $999.99 is the final price.

Yes. Sweetwater. No tax, and free shipping. {$2.25 for "signature required"}

[EvilDragon]

So if I have a VAT registered company in EU (which I do), I can order it from another EU country with full VAT deduction. Say from Thomann in Germany. DM12 ends up at 25% less for me then, which squarely puts it at 996€ for me (with free shipping, too). Which is not too different from $999 in USA (50 bucks more by today's exchange rate - which I don't mind).

[jacqueslacouth]

Anyone got a price when they eventually arrive in Australia? I'm sure that will stop the moaning in other countries when yet again we have to sell a kidney from our first born.

[sqigls]

Anyone got a price when they eventually arrive in Australia? I'm sure that will stop the moaning in other countries when yet again we have to sell a kidney from our first born.

yeah i'm guessing more like $1300

[AnX]

So if I have a VAT registered company in EU (which I do), I can order it from another EU country with full VAT deduction. Say from Thomann in Germany. DM12 ends up at 25% less for me then, which squarely puts it at 996€ for me (with free shipping, too). Which is not too different from $999 in USA (50 bucks more by today's exchange rate - which I don't mind).

You buy at full price and claim the VAT back when you do you accounts.

[EvilDragon]

Or that. Personally I like ordering from Thomann, since I do have a VAT registered business anyways.

[bungle]

It will be £300 cheaper in a year anyway, it is Behringer release model, premium early prices, reduce heavily after a year, they have done it with all their products recently.

[ftech]

Anyone got a price when they eventually arrive in Australia? I'm sure that will stop the moaning in other countries when yet again we have to sell a kidney from our first born.

yeah i'm guessing more like $1300

Well, considering that's what Korg's Odyssey reissue is going for (and the EU/US price for that is much less than $999US) , I think you are putting more faith in our distributers and retailers than I am prepared to.

[dluther]

It will be £300 cheaper in a year anyway, it is Behringer release model, premium early prices, reduce heavily after a year, they have done it with all their products recently.

I highly doubt that.

I took a lot of crap over on GearSlutz for stating the DM12 would be $1500 and released sometime in May, offering Behringer's long and illustrious history of delayed products and overestimating their "suggested" prices. However, they pretty much hit the nail on the head with the DM12, so good for them. This is still an outlier for Behringer, but I hope they continue and make it a trend.

Uli Behringer said this has some 4,000 discrete components, which would normally make for a much more expensive item. Two ways to overcome those cost barriers is to negotiate with component suppliers (which they did), purchase more components (quantity discounts), or use cheaper components (who knows).

Normally companies only plan on a single production run, which is how they combine the cost of research and design, components, production, tooling, marketing, and profit to realize a unit price. Any subsequent runs due to product demand are a bonus, and don't have any of the R&D/tooling costs; less the cost of revisions, they can go straight to production and offer a lower price/higher profit margin per unit.

Behringer is obviously working to spread their profit across multiple production runs. Granted they didn't have much invested in design to recoup (it's essentially a Juno 106), but the profit margins on this unit have to be razor thin; the only way to realize profits is to assimilate the savings from subsequent production runs.

[lfm]

Isn't 12 voices more than most need anyway?

Shouldn't they have made it 6 voices, like Prophet - and maybe add if it was Roland Boutique that hade this connector to connect two modules if you needed more than 4 voices. Maybe it was Korg, don't remember.

And they would have sold two units to those needing as much as 12 voices.

Basically it's unison that steal a lot of voices, but that is less needed on true analog synth with good filters anyway.

But if DM12 is good it's a steal, being 12 voice and half price of Prophet 6.

But how is it compared to Korg Minilogue which yet less than half price of DM12.
But haven't compared features.

And if wanting true analog monosynth Korg Monologue is almost half price again.

How saturated is market for this segment one wonders....

I recently bought a live DVD with Howard Jones and he had one part of show that were all retro - how lovely.....just keeping it simple and a few really good sounding synths....

[barryfell]

Isn't 12 voices more than most need anyway?

Shouldn't they have made it 6 voices, like Prophet - and maybe add if it was Roland Boutique that hade this connector to connect two modules if you needed more than 4 voices. Maybe it was Korg, don't remember.

And they would have sold two units to those needing as much as 12 voices.

Basically it's unison that steal a lot of voices, but that is less needed on true analog synth with good filters anyway.

But if DM12 is good it's a steal, being 12 voice and half price of Prophet 6.

But how is it compared to Korg Minilogue which yet less than half price of DM12.
But haven't compared features.

And if wanting true analog monosynth Korg Monologue is almost half price again.

How saturated is market for this segment one wonders....

I recently bought a live DVD with Howard Jones and he had one part of show that were all retro - how lovely.....just keeping it simple and a few really good sounding synths....

12 voices is crucial to getting big long evolving chords with no note stealing. I've not been using unison all that much so far. (Had mine for two weeks now)

6 voices just isn't enough IMO, never mind 4 such as on the Minologue for those big evolving pads that I love to play. I'm still totally happy to keep my Minologue as well though.

[lfm]

12 voices is crucial to getting big long evolving chords with no note stealing. I've not been using unison all that much so far. (Had mine for two weeks now)

6 voices just isn't enough IMO, never mind 4 such as on the Minologue for those big evolving pads that I love to play. I'm still totally happy to keep my Minologue as well though.

I saw a couple of demos, the 40 min one with Daniel Fischer as one.
He used that hold button alot, which I presume is like sustain pedal just about - or if also retriggers or something.
So yes, always good with enough voices.

But how many needs exactly that?

But how much could they simplify, lower prices and sell more doing that?
And a connector to get two, that truly runs in parallell if really needing that - one just working as a slave giving extra voices.

But the JD73 demos, with much more playable sounds, rather than ambient sound design stuff, showed some nice patches. Ambient landscapes are for some, I guess.

But then after that listening to some magic from Modal Electronics 008 - and you feel like selling the car to get it.

No doubt the way to go is hardware synths, and control panel sliders/knobs for just about everything. DM12 seem to have done everything right about that.

A DM6 for $800 or so, and it could replace my KingKorg which lacks knobs for too many things. Soundwise similar the little I heard. DCO's are not the same as VCO's. There is a reason Dave Smith did a Prophet 6 at double price after Prophet 8 or same price as Prophet 12 - but again to be fair have not compared all features. DM12 seems very versatile in what you can do and access to just about everything.

[barryfell]

12 voices is crucial to getting big long evolving chords with no note stealing. I've not been using unison all that much so far. (Had mine for two weeks now)

6 voices just isn't enough IMO, never mind 4 such as on the Minologue for those big evolving pads that I love to play. I'm still totally happy to keep my Minologue as well though.

I saw a couple of demos, the 40 min one with Daniel Fischer as one.
He used that hold button alot, which I presume is like sustain pedal just about - or if also retriggers or something.

The hold button is just to keep the arp or ctrl sequencer when you're not triggering it with any keys Nothing like a sustain pedal

So yes, always good with enough voices.

But how many needs exactly that?

I think you'll find not having to worry about note stealing, which is the bane of using analouge polys for pads for many due to low voice count has been very welcome.

I sold my Analog 4 as the voice stealing was too annoying. (Among other reasons)

But how much could they simplify, lower prices and sell more doing that?
And a connector to get two, that truly runs in parallell if really needing that - one just working as a slave giving extra voices.

Of course they could make something more in line with the Korg Minilogue, but why should they? They had the idea of a Juno-106 like synth and made something that the market didn't have. A 12 voice analogue is far more interesting to most people than a cheaper four or six.

But then after that listening to some magic from Modal Electronics 008 - and you feel like selling the car to get it.

Yeah I really fancy a Modal synth. So pricey though!

A DM6 for $800 or so, and it could replace my KingKorg which lacks knobs for too many things. Soundwise similar the little I heard. DCO's are not the same as VCO's. There is a reason Dave Smith did a Prophet 6 at double price after Prophet 8 or same price as Prophet 12 - but again to be fair have not compared all features. DM12 seems very versatile in what you can do and access to just about everything.

If they do it I bet it won't just be a cut down version of the DM12. I would think it would be something new, since the DM12's heritage is in the Juno-106 so a cut down version would be weird. In fact they have already stated they are working on synths inspired by vintage big analogue classics like the Jupiter 8 and Oberheim's I believe, so I think they might continue to stay in the lucrative market of selling big analogue polys for much cheaper than the high end synth market competition can do.