Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

[tapper mike]

I can exactly see your point about mono.


Though for me with the linnstrument.... My right hand had no problem with scales/chords/melodies etc However My left had would get lost.

[jancivil]

I'm just not a keyboard player.
Additionally, the way I think musically is independent single lines, horns, lead guitar, e. bass... the latter two can do 'polyphony' but that's a secondary consideration. Monophonic is my way.
And while I firmly believe in entering a performance into the MIDI editors, it's a mutant technique I created long ago for the monophonic way o' life, it's retarded, spastic... so I got to where I like to write expression after the fact. I'm using keyswitches for every sample-based instrument and that's maybe 90% of what happens so really it's all about editing after the fact of note entry.
I like some mod wheel. I'm good with the pitch wheel... I use velocity to CC4 for hihat, that's as fancy as I'll get.

I admire youse what can do, but this is never going to be something I'll spend towards or let it limit my instrument choices. I even doubt I'll look twice at VST3.5 note expression, as fascinated as I was when that was the new trip.

[pdxindy]

I'm just not a keyboard player.
Additionally, the way I think musically is independent single lines, horns, lead guitar, e. bass... the latter two can do 'polyphony' but that's a secondary consideration. Monophonic is my way.
And while I firmly believe in entering a performance into the MIDI editors, it's a mutant technique I created long ago for the monophonic way o' life, it's retarded, spastic... so I got to where I like to write expression after the fact. I'm using keyswitches for every sample-based instrument and that's maybe 90% of what happens so really it's all about editing after the fact of note entry.
I like some mod wheel. I'm good with the pitch wheel... I use velocity to CC4 for hihat, that's as fancy as I'll get.

I admire youse what can do, but this is never going to be something I'll spend towards or let it limit my instrument choices. I even doubt I'll look twice at VST3.5 note expression, as fascinated as I was when that was the new trip.

The thing is, MPE type controllers are significantly better even for mono lines...

You have a much more fluid control over pitch and modulation as part of the playing. You can play some vibrato, control the speed and depth of it, and then just slide up a 5th all in a very natural motion that is an integrated part of playing. The Pitch and Mod Wheel is crude by comparison and just cannot match the nuance and expressiveness.

Also, it allows for a kind of monophonic playing with a polyphonic preset where notes can have some extra release so the new note does not have to cut off the old note tail. It is still basically like a mono lead but with just that little bit of overlap at times... nice result and with MPE you just do not have to worry about pitch bending a note and also catching the previous note tail.

Not trying to convince you, just pointing out for the conversation that the benefit is not just for polyphony but for mono playing too.

[jancivil]

Well, if velocity and aftertouch can make pitch more elastic in real time, that's a good argument for me. I do like digging into a key even with my idiot technique. I'm a guitar player. Also I like ribbon controllers.

I have read a number of times about not cutting the tail off the prev. note, and I have to admit I don't fully get that. I had one instrument that was set poly by an A/B switch (velocity) doing something of the sort 'axmodently', I didn't know what was wrong until I got hip to that interface and I finally saw to get rid of it.

At any rate, that isn't monophonic instrument behavior by definition.

[deastman]

I think guitar players will appreciate MPE more than traditional keyboardists, because they are already accustomed to expressive playing. I'm not a great keyboardist, and I still prefer a traditional keyboard for bashing out chords. For solo instruments, however, there is nothing better than an MPE controller. That's how I generally find myself using the Roli. There is already some great software out there- Equator, Strobe, Softube Modular, MaxMSP, and Omnisphere, for example. Also, using the Rise with the free Roli iOS apps is effortless and incredibly fun. Anyone with a 3D Touch iPhone should download them immediately!

I'd really like to try out some of the Samplemodeling instruments, which Roger Linn seems to favor. And I fully expect that we'll begin to see much wider adoption of MPE in the near future, especially once the standard is formalized.

[EnGee]

I think guitar players will appreciate MPE more than traditional keyboardists, because they are already accustomed to expressive playing.

What do you mean by 'expressive playing'?

I don't even like the After touch concept at all! Imagine applying this to guitars! It is a clumsy way to have an effect IMO. Modulation wheel is nice because it can be combined with what you play smoothly. I don't know, I wish the manufacturers invest in improving the quality of the keys bed/keys in relation to the price instead of all these toyish technologies, but maybe the signs of getting old have just started

[Cinebient]

I think guitar players will appreciate MPE more than traditional keyboardists, because they are already accustomed to expressive playing.

What do you mean by 'expressive playing'?

I don't even like the After touch concept at all! Imagine applying this to guitars! It is a clumsy way to have an effect IMO. Modulation wheel is nice because it can be combined with what you play smoothly. I don't know, I wish the manufacturers invest in improving the quality of the keys bed/keys in relation to the price instead of all these toyish technologies, but maybe the signs of getting old have just started

Don't be scared for the future

[EnGee]

I'm not

[pdxindy]

I think guitar players will appreciate MPE more than traditional keyboardists, because they are already accustomed to expressive playing.

What do you mean by 'expressive playing'?

I don't even like the After touch concept at all! Imagine applying this to guitars! It is a clumsy way to have an effect IMO. Modulation wheel is nice because it can be combined with what you play smoothly. I don't know, I wish the manufacturers invest in improving the quality of the keys bed/keys in relation to the price instead of all these toyish technologies, but maybe the signs of getting old have just started

Expressive playing means one can control the sound in fluid natural ways. With a guitar, you can bend a note, get a different tone by where you pluck the note, play softer or louder, pluck the note with fingers or nails, slide from one note to another, do vibrato and naturally control the speed, etc.

With the usual controller keyboards, you have to use clumsy controls like mod wheels and pitch wheels to sorta do some of that... and then it is all notes at once, not per note. With the Rise, without needing a modwheel or pitch wheel, you can do vibrato and control depth and speed spontaneously and fluidly. You can slide up a 5th, you can adjust tone on the y axis and volume by pressure.

One can do those things with one hand so the other hand is free to play other notes, hold a chord, do something else like turn a knob and so on.

Lots of cheap controllers have crap aftertouch... it jumps between states, not a precise control, etc. If that is someones experience, then it does not feel very useful.

The Rise is very expressive with excellent sensitivity on pressure. And in some sounds, one might prefer to have it do nothing. One is not obliged to use it in all instances.

[Restless]

Since buying my seaboard 25 I'm not buying anymore VSTs without MPE support. I'm still learning to play the thing, and going back to the keyboard after experiencing playing with all this expressiveness available seems like a huge step back. Still use it for some stuff though.

So yes. Any company that's not implementing MPE will get no more money from me.

[EnGee]

I think guitar players will appreciate MPE more than traditional keyboardists, because they are already accustomed to expressive playing.

What do you mean by 'expressive playing'?

I don't even like the After touch concept at all! Imagine applying this to guitars! It is a clumsy way to have an effect IMO. Modulation wheel is nice because it can be combined with what you play smoothly. I don't know, I wish the manufacturers invest in improving the quality of the keys bed/keys in relation to the price instead of all these toyish technologies, but maybe the signs of getting old have just started

Expressive playing means one can control the sound in fluid natural ways. With a guitar, you can bend a note, get a different tone by where you pluck the note, play softer or louder, pluck the note with fingers or nails, slide from one note to another, do vibrato and naturally control the speed, etc.

With the usual controller keyboards, you have to use clumsy controls like mod wheels and pitch wheels to sorta do some of that... and then it is all notes at once, not per note. With the Rise, without needing a modwheel or pitch wheel, you can do vibrato and control depth and speed spontaneously and fluidly. You can slide up a 5th, you can adjust tone on the y axis and volume by pressure.

One can do those things with one hand so the other hand is free to play other notes, hold a chord, do something else like turn a knob and so on.

Lots of cheap controllers have crap aftertouch... it jumps between states, not a precise control, etc. If that is someones experience, then it does not feel very useful.

The Rise is very expressive with excellent sensitivity on pressure. And in some sounds, one might prefer to have it do nothing. One is not obliged to use it in all instances.

I agree about those cheap quality keyboards (which they are 90% or more!). But as you have the guitar techniques in your mind, I have the Pianos/Organs in my mind.

[pdxindy]

But as you have the guitar techniques in your mind, I have the Pianos/Organs in my mind.

Which you are welcome to do.

A clarification... I have guitar techniques, pianos and organs and other techniques in my mind. I want to have a diversity of ways to play and not just one or the other. The standard keyboard is very limited.

oh, and you asked the question, what is expressive playing... so I answered it. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

[EnGee]

But as you have the guitar techniques in your mind, I have the Pianos/Organs in my mind.

Which you are welcome to do.

A clarification... I have guitar techniques, pianos and organs and other techniques in my mind. I want to have a diversity of ways to play and not just one or the other. The standard keyboard is very limited.

oh, and you asked the question, what is expressive playing... so I answered it. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Which is nice of you
I really didn't understand what it meant by expressive playing as I believe every instrument (acoustic especially) has its advanced techniques (usually) for more expressive playing.

[EvilDragon]

Aftertouch is pretty essential for expressive playing, yes.

[deastman]

But as you have the guitar techniques in your mind, I have the Pianos/Organs in my mind.

Which you are welcome to do.

A clarification... I have guitar techniques, pianos and organs and other techniques in my mind. I want to have a diversity of ways to play and not just one or the other. The standard keyboard is very limited.

oh, and you asked the question, what is expressive playing... so I answered it. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Which is nice of you
I really didn't understand what it meant by expressive playing as I believe every instrument (acoustic especially) has its advanced techniques (usually) for more expressive playing.

Piano, for example, is a less expressive instrument than a guitar. Your fingers have more more direct control over the manipulation of the guitar strings. A piano is basically just how hard/fast you strike a note and release it. A harpsichord is even less expressive. And a typical midi controller is no better than a piano. Which is not to imply that a piano cannot be used to create beautiful music, of course! A Seaboard gives you the hybrid experience typical of keyboardists, guitarists, and woodwind players, all rolled into one with multiple dimensions of simultaneous control under each finger.