Getting Hive?

[wagtunes]

I guarantee you that if you put my Zebra 2 bank and my Hive bank up on your site, my Zebra 2 bank would outsell my Hive bank 10 to 1.

Wanna take me up on my offer and prove me wrong?

Nice try, but I'm sure it would be bad for U-He's sales

Hey, you're funny. Don't quit your day job.

[Reefius]

It's actually quite simple: Hive is more for EDM music, so it's no surprise nobody is interested in 80's style sounds.

[Zexila]

Well then with all things being equal, considering I've made 45 different banks for 45 different synths (actually more if you count package libraries) then Hive must be the worst selling of all those synths since all my customers don't use it and yet seem to use everything else.

No, it just means your customers don't use it that much and other users of it don't dig your work for it, let's not make something more out of your personal selling numbers than it is really, it's not showcasing anything else than this. Sorry for bad English.

Except it's not that simple.

Hypothetically, company A makes synth X. Only sells 1 unit. But the person who buys it loves the sounds I made for it. So I sell 1 library. I've sold to 100% of the customers who bought that synth and yet it's my worst selling library, only selling 1 copy.

Now, company B makes synth Y. It sells like crazy. They sell 50,000 units. I make a library but only sell to 1% of the people who bought the synth. That's still 500 banks sold and my best selling synth by miles. Yet, only 1% of the customers liked my library.

Now do you understand why it's not as simple as you're making it out to be? Sales figures absolutely figure in to how well or poorly a library sells.

Already responded (added later), Urs said it's selling good for him, that just shows how many folks are really into your banks, maybe 0,1% of his numbers.

[wagtunes]

It's actually quite simple: Hive is more for EDM music, so it's no surprise nobody is interested in 80's style sounds.

Excellent argument with one problem.

These synths are also for EDM music and ALL sell better than Hive.

Dune 2
Spire
Serum
Electra 2
Massive

[wagtunes]

Well then with all things being equal, considering I've made 45 different banks for 45 different synths (actually more if you count package libraries) then Hive must be the worst selling of all those synths since all my customers don't use it and yet seem to use everything else.

No, it just means your customers don't use it that much and other users of it don't dig your work for it, let's not make something more out of your personal selling numbers than it is really, it's not showcasing anything else than this. Sorry for bad English.

Except it's not that simple.

Hypothetically, company A makes synth X. Only sells 1 unit. But the person who buys it loves the sounds I made for it. So I sell 1 library. I've sold to 100% of the customers who bought that synth and yet it's my worst selling library, only selling 1 copy.

Now, company B makes synth Y. It sells like crazy. They sell 50,000 units. I make a library but only sell to 1% of the people who bought the synth. That's still 500 banks sold and my best selling synth by miles. Yet, only 1% of the customers liked my library.

Now do you understand why it's not as simple as you're making it out to be? Sales figures absolutely figure in to how well or poorly a library sells.

Already responded (added later), Urs said it's selling good for him, that just shows how many folks are really into your banks, maybe 0,1% of his numbers.

So then the other EDM synths that sell better for me must therefor sell better than Hive.

So you're still proving my point. Relatively speaking, Hive doesn't sell as well as these other synths, assuming that 99% of the people out there hate my libraries.

[wagtunes]

Okay, here's what I want you to do.

List all the synths that you believe target the same audience as Hive. With the exception of Sylenth1, I'm sure I have them all. I'll then list them in order of best to worst sales.

[whyterabbyt]

Well then with all things being equal, considering I've made 45 different banks for 45 different synths (actually more if you count package libraries) then Hive must be the worst selling of all those synths since all my customers don't use it and yet seem to use everything else.

No, it just means your customers don't use it that much and other users of it don't dig your work for it, let's not make something more out of your personal selling numbers than it is really, it's not showcasing anything else than this. Sorry for bad English.

Except it's not that simple.

.
.
.

Now do you understand why it's not as simple as you're making it out to be? Sales figures absolutely figure in to how well or poorly a library sells.

No, that's the thing that's not that simple.

Sales of a synth indicates the potential sales of a library for that synth, not actual. And sales of the library do not correlate to sales. After all, youve been told your conclusion about Hive sales is wrong, by someone who knows.

Maybe Hive users prefer different types of sounds to buy. Maybe your Hive sounds are worse than your other ones. Maybe they're not 'genre' enough. Maybe there are more competing Hive libraries. Maybe Hive's included patches suit its audience better than other synths libraries do. Maybe Hive users dont want third-party libraries yet. Maybe Hive sells to people who are less inclined to buy libraries.

Maybe all of these things, adding up to a rebuttal of 'It is a fact that my library sales directly correlate to the synth's sales'

Time to adjust your simple theory, rather than argue that its got to be correct.

[wagtunes]

Well then with all things being equal, considering I've made 45 different banks for 45 different synths (actually more if you count package libraries) then Hive must be the worst selling of all those synths since all my customers don't use it and yet seem to use everything else.

No, it just means your customers don't use it that much and other users of it don't dig your work for it, let's not make something more out of your personal selling numbers than it is really, it's not showcasing anything else than this. Sorry for bad English.

Except it's not that simple.

.
.
.

Now do you understand why it's not as simple as you're making it out to be? Sales figures absolutely figure in to how well or poorly a library sells.

No, that's the thing that's not that simple.

Sales of a synth indicates the potential sales of a library for that synth, not actual. And sales of the library do not correlate to sales. After all, youve been told your conclusion about Hive sales is wrong, by someone who knows.

Maybe Hive users prefer different types of sounds to buy. Maybe your Hive sounds are worse than your other ones. Maybe they're not 'genre' enough. Maybe there are more competing Hive libraries. Maybe Hive users dont want third-party libraries yet. Maybe Hive sells to people who are less inclined to buy libraries.

Time to adjust your simple theory, rather than argue that its got to be correct.

All possible. But doesn't this apply to every synth out there?

Yes, there are many different variables, but having a sample size of 45 different libraries (not a small size) and seeing drastic reduction of numbers between Hive and every other library, isn't the likelihood of all those variables going against me very small?

[Zexila]

So then the other EDM synths that sell better for me must therefor sell better than Hive.

So you're still proving my point. Relatively speaking, Hive doesn't sell as well as these other synths, assuming that 99% of the people out there hate my libraries.

You are putting too much importance on your sales numbers, there are more variables there and still it's giant speculation, as I recall Hive is among top sellers for Urs, ask him to show you that numbers and than do your banks math, than when you find u-he synth that is not selling better than Hive, but you are selling more banks for it will just prove how your numbers are actually irrelevant and how everything is relative.

[wagtunes]

There is one other thing that, with the exception of Hive, all my worst selling libraries have in common.

They are hardly ever discussed here. Trying to find threads on those synths is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

So there is no question that popularity does come into play, which again, is why my Hive sales are so surprising. I figured if it's a U-he synth, it'll sell.

Obviously, in that regard, I was wrong.

[Urs]

Good then we have that cleared up as well

Urs, I love your stuff. I'm one of your best customers. I own every synth you've made.

I guarantee you that if you put my Zebra 2 bank and my Hive bank up on your site, my Zebra 2 bank would outsell my Hive bank 10 to 1.

Wanna take me up on my offer and prove me wrong?

I wasn't sure if I should add or - I went for because I've decided to not get too worried about your post. Maybe you'd be better off advertising for your Hive soundset outside of KVR. There must be scenes and groups of people where Hive is more popular than here.

[wagtunes]

So then the other EDM synths that sell better for me must therefor sell better than Hive.

So you're still proving my point. Relatively speaking, Hive doesn't sell as well as these other synths, assuming that 99% of the people out there hate my libraries.

You are putting too much importance on your sales numbers, there are more variables there and still it's giant speculation, as I recall Hive is among top sellers for Urs, ask him to show you that numbers and than do your banks math, than when you find u-he synth that is not selling better than Hive, but you are selling more banks for it will just prove how your numbers are actually irrelevant and how everything is relative.

These are all valid points, and yes, there are many variables involved. I just find it odd that such a "popular" synth would do so poorly, especially in comparison to other synths targeting the same audience.

All I'm trying to do is wrap my head around what's happened because usually when I release a library, I know beforehand how well or poorly it will do.

Surprises?

These synths stunned the hell out of me in their performance

Bazille - Much better than expected
Blue II - Much worse than expected
ACE - Much better than expected
MUX - Much better than expected
Softube Modular - Ridiculously better than expected
Sunrizer - Much better than expected
Hive - Ridiculously worse than expected

So 7 out of 45 libraries surprised me in how well or poorly they did with Softube Modular and Hive at the opposite ends of the bell curve. I guess, mathematically, this was to be expected. And actually, looking at my current bell curve, it's classic.

So maybe I shouldn't be so surprised after all.

[wagtunes]

I wonder if, without revealing any actual sales figures, Urs can list his synths in order of best to worst selling. I'm just curious to see if they align with my own sales or if there are any anomalies.

Here are my numbers

Zebra 2 - 5th overall
Bazille - 9th overall
Diva - 12th overall
ACE - 19th overall
Repro-1 - 26th overall
Hive - 42nd overall

[whyterabbyt]

All possible. But doesn't this apply to every synth out there?

Its not a single 'this', its a list of them, and yes, they all apply to every synth out there; differently. They all apply differently to all synths out there.

Yes, there are many different variables

Thats my point; you were trying to present it as a function of one single variable. And you're still trying to do so despite having been told authoritively that the sales of Hive are better than you're claiming they 'should' be.
When your theory is at odds with the facts, its time to revisit the theory.

but having a sample size of 45 different libraries (not a small size) and seeing drastic reduction of numbers between Hive and every other library, isn't the likelihood of all those variables going against me very small?

No; you're basically claiming that the contribution of the single factor you have focussed on is more important than the sum of the contributions of all the others. However that's an unwarranted assumption.

Like I say, Urs has stated that the logical conclusion of your theory does not fit the actual facts. So your theory is wrong, and that is almost certainly because other factors that you are trivialising or ignoring are more important than you acknowledge.

[wagtunes]

All possible. But doesn't this apply to every synth out there?

Its not a single 'this', its a list of them, and yes, they all apply to every synth out there; differently. They all apply differently to all synths out there.

Yes, there are many different variables

Thats my point; you were trying to present it as a function of one single variable. And you're still trying to do so despite having been told authoritively that the sales of Hive are better than you're claiming they 'should' be.
When your theory is at odds with the facts, its time to revisit the theory.

but having a sample size of 45 different libraries (not a small size) and seeing drastic reduction of numbers between Hive and every other library, isn't the likelihood of all those variables going against me very small?

No; you're basically claiming that the contribution of the single factor you have focussed on is more important than the sum of the contributions of all the others. However that's an unwarranted assumption.

Like I say, Urs has stated that the logical conclusion of your theory does not fit the actual facts. So your theory is wrong, and that is almost certainly because other factors that you are trivialising or ignoring are more important than you acknowledge.

So then how does one determine the weight of each factor or is that an impossibility?