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Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:24 pm

Clever comment, although I don't agree the core point of it. But most likely this is the reason many keep distance to Zappa's music. Often the same people say, that Joe's Garage -period was the most human Zappa.
I myself see that we need music that touches in many levels, in other ways than only emotionally, too.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:25 pm

/yawn, sigh

Why Doesn't Somebody Get Him a Pepsi 1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6frfeIdln6Y

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:27 pm

Harry_HH wrote:Clever comment,

My whole thought about that is it's like someone going to a post on astrophysics or something which requires math for a full grasp, but the person doesn't do math really so the thread is very boring to them.

FZ has a lot of very emotion-bringing music and frankly when any of us decides we know about things we have yet to even experience we're making a mistake and it's not one to be too proud of.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:29 pm

the 1975 version of 'The Torture Never Stops' was originally known as 'Won't Someone Get Him a Pepsi' because Donnie Vliet used to scream at his mother all the time "SUE! GET ME A PEPSI!".

have a look at the cover for Bongo Fury for a possible glimpse of FZ reminded of this on tour with Beefheart as his employee...

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:34 pm

Harry_HH wrote: people say, that Joe's Garage-period was the most human Zappa.

Weird, weird thought afaic.

Joe goes to prison for f**king an appliance to death...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3f7ca39zfo
1979

Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8GGWqJ-l4U
1969

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhgpfyMkxMg

nuff said

skipscada · Post by **skipscada** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:30 pm

Bombadil wrote: Played 'B**** B****' at a concert once. Didn't know there'd be kiddies in the audience.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think you're supposed to mention that song in front of Zappa-lovers.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:33 pm

Nuff said, for what? I really don't appreciated being condescended to just because I don't 'get' Zappa. Does anyone here think that he filled arenas with people who knew the difference between 4/4 time and 13/9 time, and a diminished chord from a minor 7th? No, he predominantly filled arenas with stoners with no musical background whatsoever. I know, I was a stoner, and knew quite a few Zappa fans who were also stoners. I'd also hazard a guess that most of his fan base is male, kinda like prog-rock and death-metal. I don't relate to the cynicism and what I perceive as emotional distance from his creations. It leaves me cold. Someone said it much better than I could a number of pages back, though I can't be bothered to go back and find it.

I don't like Troutface Sandwich, or whatever his name was, either. Wait... Captain Beefheart. I knew a couple of people who'd play his stuff just to annoy others. Nope. Didn't 'get' him, either. I certainly am not going to sit here and justify my taste in music... to anyone. I think Zappa was technically a very good musician. I just don't happen to like his music, or his attitude about it and others' music. And, you know, I was being a bit facetious with the 'too many notes' quote. I like a lot of stuff that is played fluently, from classical guitar to Genesis, to some jazz guitar, like Joe Pass. I also love Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, Rossini, Renaissance Music, and so forth. I just don't like it all. But I give most of them credit for not trying to be overly cute and ironic in their compositions.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:46 am

Bombadil wrote:Nuff said, for what? I really don't appreciated being condescended to just because I don't 'get' Zappa.

Well, there are threads here about things I don't go for. I don't go into them to say so. I believe that's a better way to be, here, or at youtube or any social media. Apparently your better angels thought better about posting but you said fuggit, and even knowing the risk now you have a problem with me. Give us a break.

I have no problem with what I said to you about your contribution. You can characterize it in a way that makes me mean, I say it was fair.

You have decided to have a stance and it appears to result in a closed mind. "Nuff said", how is that usually used? I think the music said it. Also, Watermelon in Easter Hay is something that so many people say 'I want this played at my funeral'. It does create emotion in people.
So who cares to see you go on about something you don't like? It's not interesting. It's trolling, it disrupts. Now, in favor of fighting you have more argumentative shit which isn't interesting.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:59 pm

it's not trolling at all, Bombadil was just sharing how he felt, said nothing out of line and honestly I think such threads as these do well with respectfully stated contrasting opinions. If Bombadil were to jump on everything Zappa by hating on him with every post he could that would be trolling. That is not the case at all, in fact he started out by saying he was hesitant to post in this thread, that's more of a concern imo as he should feel free to post how he feels as well as long as it's done within the rules of the forum, which his post was.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:34 pm

Night School is one of my fav Zappa 'choons, very different from his other stuff, but still got his signature

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGmKwC8T1lI

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:10 pm

"Bombadil was just sharing how he felt, said nothing out of line and honestly I think such threads as these do well with respectfully stated contrasting opinions."

HEY, and here was mine? You got a problem with the mere fact I don't agree with the guy? SUE ME.

If someone has the expectation that music should be emotional like all the garbage I hear in Starbucks most days, Zappa is not going to fit.

I find that the thrust to pull emotion out of people using pop songs an atrocity and I agree with Frank that it's bad for the mental hygiene of society. It's false. There's all this histrionics being practiced and most of the time someone is bemoaning the state of their sex life. I had to go home, it was making me literally sick yesterday.

So this is a forum where people feel free to state their opinion, yeah? So if you state yours and I state my view of yours, and yours was just negative, I'm the asshole. Got it.

No. And I've posted track after track where the stance "too many notes" applies not at all. Watermelon? Really? It's fecking IV-I and Ionian mode and some blues inflections, a beautiful tune at center. Lucille Has Messed My Mind Up? Doreen? Society Pages? You don't want to know about it, I have no problem with that. Don't take it personally "Bombadil" whoever you are, I find that stance tiresome from all of youse. I'm nothing to you so you may have forgotten I'm already cognizant of it, of "complexity for the sake of complexity". Tiresome, uninteresting. So you wouldn't seem to care about Stravinsky Rite of Spring, or L'Histoire, or Bartok Concerto for Orchestra or 3rd Piano Concerto, let alone Varèse. Well...

I did two things deliberately influenced by the FZ approach to dodecaphony. It is about quite a lot more than just "complexity". I said this last time, you can't know what's in the mind of someone doing something you

don't get

Mo 'n Herb's Vacation, notorious for the rhythmic complexity. It also is very cartoonish and comical, absurd. I find that fascinating, Schoenberg can come across, the German Expressionism in Berg as well, as neurotic or deranged in a disturbing way; the same type of vocabulary used for comic effect? Here's something.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:14 pm

Hink wrote:it's not trolling at all,

And you are not the arbiter of meaning of words for me at all.

"honestly I think such threads as these do well with respectfully stated contrasting opinions"
Rather than play games, if you have a real problem with a statement of mine there state it.

I'm not moved away from feeling free myself to state what I think about the thing because you feel you have to horn in and micromanage. And take sides, for f**k's sake.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:27 pm

it wasn't trolling

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:33 pm

That's your opinion. Just like your opinion that a word which may well simply mean 'made slower' is a hate word per se. Your command of the language isn't good enough to tell me what shit means, pal. I characterized it as disrupting, and that's a meaning of 'trolling' which, for your purpose of giving me a bad time choose to suit you/to be narrow to that point precludes. Where do you get the feeling I'm compliant like that?

Bombadil wrote:I was being a bit facetious with the 'too many notes' quote. I like a lot of stuff that is played fluently, from classical guitar to Genesis, to some jazz guitar, like Joe Pass. I also love Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, Rossini, Renaissance Music, and so forth. I just don't like it all. But I give most of them credit for not trying to be overly cute and ironic in their compositions.

As I said before, you from your standpoint can't know what a genius was thinking. Sorry, that's arrogant.

And I feel as free to type that as "Bombadil" did to type that mini-rant, "Hink".

Zappa - what a tight music arranger