Roli Equator released

[aMUSEd]

Where do Roli put their update info for Equator? I want to see again what they said was in the last update as I can't find it.

[Tj Shredder]

What I wanted to point out is, that "programming in" is the opposite of expression. For the non performing composer of course its the only expression you can have...; - )

Nice try but live performance is why I make music....
I don't need to practice it, which leaves me much freer to experiment without feeling like I've wasted a whole heap of time.

That explains all...

For me its at least one note of every chord I play...

So you didn't bother with computers three years ago, before MPE, I take it?

I didn't bother with synths and DAWs! I played live all the time treating sound of my mates and my own voice and lots of "object trouvés" with heavy Max/MSP patches - I could combine programming with expressive playing, but my controllers where mainly fader boxes with lots of dials... My mates played the melodies and I got to treat their expression...

and look at this guy, Serum isn't MPE by the way, but in Bitwig or Logic you can set it up for MPE...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnwSZBVJV8g

It looks like you could do that with aftertouch and maybe a keyboard split (assuming his left hand is also playing something), which you don't need MPE for. Of course, you'd have to learn to play keyboards to do it, and it wouldn't be as impressive to watch, but it would work.

A wheel would not even have inspired this musician to play it that way...

Obviously you never played an expressive instrument! With programming you can't even get close: each moment and micromovement is different at any time.

This is the perfect illustration of what I'm trying to get through your thick, unreceptive heads - I can use GLIDE on my Roli without MPE to add as much sloppy human expression as I want. I don't need MPE to do it. Why is this not completely obvious to you?

Yes, I agree, you can do that with the Seaboard, but you are limited to monophonic playing unfortunately... I bet its enough for you, not for me though...

The only emotion I ever want to hear in my music is rage and metronomic expression works just fine for that most of the time.
----
Don't think for a second that the things that work for you will work for everyone else. That video you linked to, for example, I found utterly tedious and completely self-indulgent. It is the antithesis of what I try to achieve with my music. I want to destroy the world with my music, not make myself feel good.

I would never want to stop you in your personal expression. A lot of music is lacking the dark side of things, though I doubt you want to destroy the world itself, you'd rather destroy preoccupations what musical expression should be about...
I always want to destroy metronomic rhythms for example...
You told us you didn't get why MPE is crucial, we gave enough examples why it is crucial, even if its not crucial for you, you should be able to understand why it is for others. We certainly do not need to like or play the same musical styles to be able to understand that...

[BONES]

A wheel would not even have inspired this musician to play it that way...

But all he is doing is trying to emulate a different thing, that's obviously where his inspiration comes from. I assume he's just using a tool he understands to achieve that, just as I would use the standard synth tools I've been using for almost 40 years if I wanted to do something similar. The amount of inspiration I've got from my Seaboard Rise over the past year is phenomenal, way more than I ever anticipated.

This is the perfect illustration of what I'm trying to get through your thick, unreceptive heads - I can use GLIDE on my Roli without MPE to add as much sloppy human expression as I want. I don't need MPE to do it. Why is this not completely obvious to you?

Yes, I agree, you can do that with the Seaboard, but you are limited to monophonic playing unfortunately... I bet its enough for you, not for me though...[/quote]
Who gives a flying fig!?! FFS, I don't give a rat's fat arse what works for you, I am simply trying to point out to prospective buyers that they can get a lot out of a Roli without MPE. That's all. You can do whatever you want with it, it's irrelevant to the point I've been making for the past two f**king months now, which you just agreed with. Finally.

You told us you didn't get why MPE is crucial, we gave enough examples why it is crucial

No, you haven't, for the simple reason that I can do all the things you have used as examples without it. I've explained how, it's very straightforward, so I don't understand why you continue to ignore it. Yes, those things are easier in isolation with MPE but if MPE isn't an option, you can still do them, it just requires a bit of planning and setting up.

[jancivil]

Don't think for a second that the things that work for you will work for everyone else.

Moved goalposts all the way to the other end of the field. You're the one that said since it doesn't work for you, it can't work.

Another Dunning-Kruger Effect poster child who is going to knock himself out trying to be right, with no regard whatsoever about the facts.

[BONES]

Who have you quoted there? Nobody is moving any goalposts, people read a comment and take from it the the one bit that interests them, ignoring the context, and they head off on a tangent. That can make the discussion difficult, if not impossible, to follow. I do it myself all the time, but I usually catch myself before I post and rewrite as necessary. e.g. You read the first sentence of a post, you are outraged by it and whip off a brilliant rebuttal. Then you read the rest of the post and realise that you had completely misread the intent of that first sentence, making your post look stupid. I try to correct those errors, some others seem to want to double-down on them rather than admit they misunderstood. Go figure.

[jancivil]

Yeah, you're the one whose totally on top and the failure to totally agree, which no one does somehow, results in everybody else is "thick".

You're actually saying two things in your own account of things which do not agree: you argue it's just pitch bend but you have Glide in a ROLI controller.
Then you can't possibly be exploiting the advantage. I did a session a couple of days ago which was mostly Glide. A little Pressure, I didn't want more out of the patch. Who has said they don't understand that much? You have to fabricate a straw man to abuse, and then act like you won a round fighting.

MPE, you can get more out of it than not. What's hard about that? You toss up these sophistries to seek to negate it. It may seem to you like a really smart look but that's that top-down assessment of BONES The One Smart Guy in the Room while you dismiss every single thing said to you because you perceive all others as "thick". It's a failure to communicate. It's just dull negativity, as it tends to be.

[BONES]

You're actually saying two things in your own account of things which do not agree: you argue it's just pitch bend but you have Glide in a ROLI controller.

Sorry but I don't see a problem, the Seaboard also has pitch bend and mod wheel functionality (you are much more likely to use the mod wheel instead of GLIDE). They are all just physical controls that translate into modulation.

You have to fabricate a straw man to abuse, and then act like you won a round fighting.

Your problem, like so many around here, is that you can't seperate the man from the idea. it always has to be personal - everything has to belong to somebody. I'm not looking at it like that - ideas are just ideas, they don't belong to anyone. Something isn't right because you or I or anyone else thinks it's right, it's right because it's right (or wrong because it's wrong).

MPE, you can get more out of it than not. What's hard about that?

Or you can get much less out of it. What's wrong with that? nobody is arguing the merits of MPE, it does what it does, but it's not the only way to do it and never has been. It's just a relatively new option. So what?
You toss up these sophistries to seek to negate it.[/quote]
No. I made a simple statement designed to reassure/inform anyone who was interested that you don't need an MPE compatible host in order to get a lot of benefit from a controller like a Roli Seaboard. That's all. Everything that has come after that has come from others, not from me, except in refutation of their narrow-mindedness on the subject.

It may seem to you like a really smart look but that's that top-down assessment of BONES The One Smart Guy in the Room while you dismiss every single thing said to you because you perceive all others as "thick". It's a failure to communicate. It's just dull negativity, as it tends to be.

You only have to read the thread to see that I actually agree with most of what others are saying. It's the one or two who refuse to accept that there are perfectly valid workarounds for those without MPE that I have been disagreeing with, because they make it seem like MPE is the one and only valid reason to buy a Seaboard, which is plainly and provably wrong.

[Tj Shredder]

I can throw in my rough impro with Thorn, a synth I love and which does not do MPE. Because of that restriction I had to find ways to play it still expressivly and it was possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGDtWD9CLJM
But still I prefer it would support MPE, then I would not have to let go all the notes I don't wanted to bend...
And now I can set it up for MPE at least in Bitwig and Mainstage/Logic. There are workarounds in technology or in playing styles...

[BONES]

That audio is really quiet, I have everything turned right up and I can hardly hear it. It sounds OK, completely different to what I use Thorn for, though, which is testament to what an amazing synth Thorn is. I actually emailed Dmitry yesterday to express my gratitude, something I have never done with any software I've used before.

Watching you play, I still have no idea how that thing works, it is all but completely opaque to me.

[Tj Shredder]

You have to touch it to get an idea. For me it was THE game changer. You can ask Roger Linn if there is a LinnStrument owner in your area to show it to you. If you come to Berlin, I am happy to let you touch it...

[BONES]

I don't care, I have a Seaboard Rise and I love it. I have never so much as picked up a guitar in my life, I imagine it would take months just to remember where the notes are, let alone to get anything useful from it..