The Waves Update Plan scam

[Etienne1973]

Was it necessary to renew WUP since 2012 (v9 release) for anyone?

[Mathematics]

I have to admit...and expired Waves WUP is a bit of an inconvenience when it comes time to sell a plugin for cheap. I just recently upgraded some of my WUP-current V9 plugins to V10 whilst the oldest expired plugin dates to June 2016 are still running fine...on my Windows computer. I only have one plugin that overlaps but after checking the "running only on one computer" box, I'm capped at $225 without that one plugin selected. It's Vitamin if anyone is interested.

As mgw38 mentioned, getting a WUP renewal from say, EveryPlugin.com is a good way to offset the cost. Also, I see the WUP was over $225 and the claim that some plugin WUPs expired earlier and so older plugins cost more to update, inherently makes sense.

Anyway, I see no scam. Waves has always been very supportive and even "hooked" me up on an expired deal that I missed. Furthermore, I recently had to do a license recovery on a bunch of expired plugins and I had that problem resolved in under a minute. I think the extra cost is very well merited and besides, it's only like half a tanks-worth more of gas. I'm sure you spend more on Latte's from Star-BUCKS...

I think every argument comes from a well justified experience but looking at the glass from a different perspective, think about all the projects you completed with Waves. For some of us, Waves Gold got our feet wet with a professional set of tools to mix and master a broadcast quality song. I feel $20-$50 for this case is enough of a financial burden to label a service as a scam. I'm not taking sides...I'm just trying to convey some rational thought.

By the way, is the V10 compatibility improved more for Apple products than PC?

[MogwaiBoy]

$225 USD is not latte coffee money - it's a serious chunk. It can't be compared to petrol money either... petrol takes you to work to earn money - what does a "WUP" do? Other than alleviate the fear of plugins inevitably dropping out of your important track sessions.

How do Image-Line survive providing free lifetime updates without subscription fees for tech support preference?

Not moaning about WUP per se - I know what I'm signing upto whenever I buy a Waves plugin (which is the fact that someday I will probably no longer use them, when their WUP expires and I can't use them on a future OS, and decide I don't need them).

But $225 is a year's wages for some

[krabbencutter]

My 2c on the waves Topic (and I'm absolutely right on this, this is the Internet after all )

I really like some of their plugins a lot! But I've become extremely cautious of purchasing new plugins by now

- They more or less killed the second Hand market overnight by introducing a Transfer fee that is tied to the MSRP. Lots of companies hav Transfer fees and this wouldn't be such a big deal if it were'nt for the fact that:
- Their pricing scheme has become absolutely absurd!
They have set 29$ as the new standard for Sales and there are only a handful of single plugins left that still retain a higher sale Price (like WNS). Everything else is getting constantly blown out for the lowest Price ever today only oh wait it's been held over for the next two weeks WUP and Transfer fees are however still tied to the higher MSRP. This leads to cases where it's cheaper to re-buy a Plugin on sale than purchasing WUP.
- I don't think their business decision of having a paid support plan is wrong. Lots of companies are releasing paid yearly upgrades or switching over to subcriptions anyway. But Waves still manage to confuse the hell out of people with it! Additionally the WUP pricing is mostly intransparent.

And then they release a new version, that has no consumer relevant features at all but cut's everybody off from future updates, whose plugins are out of WUP.

[martinjuenke]

My 2c on the waves Topic (and I'm absolutely right on this, this is the Internet after all )

I really like some of their plugins a lot! But I've become extremely cautious of purchasing new plugins by now

- They more or less killed the second Hand market overnight by introducing a Transfer fee that is tied to the MSRP. Lots of companies hav Transfer fees and this wouldn't be such a big deal if it were'nt for the fact that:
- Their pricing scheme has become absolutely absurd!
They have set 29$ as the new standard for Sales and there are only a handful of single plugins left that still retain a higher sale Price (like WNS). Everything else is getting constantly blown out for the lowest Price ever today only oh wait it's been held over for the next two weeks WUP and Transfer fees are however still tied to the higher MSRP. This leads to cases where it's cheaper to re-buy a Plugin on sale than purchasing WUP.
- I don't think their business decision of having a paid support plan is wrong. Lots of companies are releasing paid yearly upgrades or switching over to subcriptions anyway. But Waves still manage to confuse the hell out of people with it! Additionally the WUP pricing is mostly intransparent.

And then they release a new version, that has no consumer relevant features at all but cut's everybody off from future updates, whose plugins are out of WUP.

You may call this pricing strategy scam...

[krabbencutter]

You may call this pricing strategy scam...

I'm too much of a 'Gutmensch' for that
I don't believe they have a greedy management which intentionally decided to lure in new users to milk them. To me it seems their management is plain ignorant and has not understood how their new bedroom & small business userbase thinks and acts in comparison to big studios. And yeah, that's pretty bad and I hope they learn something from this big v10 clusterf*ck! I also hope they start seeing the difference between 'making plugins accessible' and 'de-valueing people's investments'.
However, I can't fault anyone who feels scammed by all this

[aMUSEd]

I don't even bother with the free Waves plugins - between their WUP, plugin shell complications, tendency to proliferate multiple variations on the same thing, erratic installation manager and over inflated marketing claims, Waves plugins have always seemed more trouble than they are worth to maintain.

[andrew71]

I have been picking up the odd Waves plugin over the last couple of years, normally when they are sold for $29. I have probably spent around $250 in total, and my WUP cost is about $220. There is nothing wrong with my current v9 plugins and so I have no intention of paying the WUP fee, especially given that there doesn't appear to be any benefit to getting v10. Updated/scalable GUI's would probably be the only reason that I would upgrade.

I'm not a fan of the method that Waves uses to install and authenticate and have had quite a few problems in the past when adding new plugins to my collection. I really don't want to deal with trying to run a v10 alongside a v9 Waves installation given the trouble I have had. As of now, I will look to purchase alternative tools with a simpler installation/authentication method and support model.

[LeVzi]

Was it necessary to renew WUP since 2012 (v9 release) for anyone?

Nope. everything was kept up to date at V9.

Only need now is for V10.

[trmupstage]

Wow, all this hate happening over WUP. I've been using their stuff for years. I like quite a few of their plugins. I don't plan to sell them, but if I did, that might make WUP a real drawback. But, you have to admit, their pricing on plugins is way more than fair. $29 for a great plugin? I've paid many hundreds of dollars on plugins that I can't even use now, due to lack of compatibility updates. Waves isn't forcing anyone to pay for WUP. You buy the plugins and use them as long as you want. You are paying for updated versions. WUP isn't free or even cheap but it isn't the end of the world. I really don't have a problem with it. From some of the posts here, you'd think they kidnapped your children. It's just a plugin. Some great and some not so great. Use them if you want or use something different. It's all good. When I compare Waves against the other main plugins I use (Softube, Plugin Alliance, DMG) they are downright inexpensive. I don't mind supporting the developers with my money. That's the only way to make sure they come out with cool new toys for us.

[Mathematics]

$225 USD is not latte coffee money - it's a serious chunk.

I think you missed my point. I said the added cost, meaning the added cost on top of the $225 he's claiming and complaining about...is Latte Money, not the $225 WUP.

$225 being someone's yearly wages? Perhaps if they're mixing in a third world country.

Anyway, Waves does state the following:

"Waves Update Plan coverage is capped at $225 per account for all non-overlapping products,
regardless of how much time has passed since your coverage was last updated."

So, OP, ask Waves to do a break down on why your cost is higher. I guess blaming it on lengthy time expired doesn't justify the hiked cost accurately. Anyway, I'm actually curious why you're getting charged more. If this was already explained and posted...I missed it. Sue me.

[Mathematics]

I really don't want to deal with trying to run a v10 alongside a v9 Waves installation given the trouble I have had.

I inherently had to do this because I needed to update a bunch of plugins to V10 before the opportunity to update passes. I am running V9 alongside V10 and the upgrade was quick with no errors or workflow incidents. The only thing that changed, was the addition of an extra directory in Live for Waves V10 plugins. ProTools didn't report any errors. Digital Performer didn't report any either...and this is the Windows version which is not even on their list of compatible DAWs. I still need to check Vienna Ensemble Pro 6. Just my $0.02.

[codec_spurt]

I'm not bothered by their WUP.

It's just their general registration scheme that puts me off them.

Their plugs are old now, but some are good. I was going to buy the Gold package the other day, then I remembered...

No more Waves plugs!

They are a nightmare to register.

WUP is probably another pain, but if I can't get the plugs I've bought registered...

Waves are losing the few customers they have left.

I already have an insane amount of plugins. And I'm going to buy more. I just won't be buying Waves. They didn't listen to their customers.

I wish them well.

[LeVzi]

Wow, all this hate happening over WUP. I've been using their stuff for years. I like quite a few of their plugins. I don't plan to sell them, but if I did, that might make WUP a real drawback. But, you have to admit, their pricing on plugins is way more than fair. $29 for a great plugin? I've paid many hundreds of dollars on plugins that I can't even use now, due to lack of compatibility updates. Waves isn't forcing anyone to pay for WUP. You buy the plugins and use them as long as you want. You are paying for updated versions. WUP isn't free or even cheap but it isn't the end of the world. I really don't have a problem with it. From some of the posts here, you'd think they kidnapped your children. It's just a plugin. Some great and some not so great. Use them if you want or use something different. It's all good. When I compare Waves against the other main plugins I use (Softube, Plugin Alliance, DMG) they are downright inexpensive. I don't mind supporting the developers with my money. That's the only way to make sure they come out with cool new toys for us.

Its not hate for the WUP, the reason I started this was the discrepancy between WUP prices for older plugins over new ones. $7.50 to update a plugin that has just expired it's WUP and treble the price for the same plugin thats 3 years out of date, even though they are the same exact version. That was the original issue, not the WUP as a whole, I appreciate the need to general revenue to keep things up to date.

[krabbencutter]

[...]
Waves are losing the few customers they have left.
[...]

you mean like the whole music industry? Like it or not, but Waves are an industry standard (read: widely adopted, not: the best) just as Pro Tools is and they won't be going anywhere soon.