Selling VST2 after October 2018: Steinberg agreement

[BobDog]

Right, thanks I get it now.

[Urs]

So the wrapper is actually a pre compiled plugin not something you use to produce a VST3?

It can be, yes.

It literally just hosts a CLAP plug-in and presents it to the host/user as the corresponding VST3 plug-in. We internally use it atm, and we have gotten out to the point where projects saved with a "real VST3" open with the wrapped CLAP, and - then saved again - reopen normally with the "real VST3", with automation, preset recall, default presets etc. There is no CPU penalty, no difference in UI, and simply no adverse side effect. Just a bit of independence, and faster build times, smaller binaries, smaller installers.

[rasmusklump]

* there are CLAPs that are MIDI sequencers and stuff, those won't work with the wrapper as VST3 does not (yet) support MIDI Note output.

What I don't understand correctly: if VST3 doesn't support Midi note output, how do vst3 plugins like Bluearp work ? They can drive other plugins with midi notes.

[Urs]

IDK, the Bluearp mentions some related issues on page 42, but it seems to be outputting Notes. That would be welcome news to me, as we plan to output notes in our plug-ins as well.

[rasmusklump]

Yes I use the bluearp as vst3 for quite a while now. But I don't do any fancy stuff with controllers or so. Just smae patterns to drive other instruments and that works.

[S0lo]

On a side thought. I always wondered if Yamaha (the mother company of Steinberg) knows anything about its child’s doings.

[baconpaul]

So the wrapper is actually a pre compiled plugin not something you use to produce/build a VST3?

The wrapper has several modes and can either produce a wrap-at-arms-length or include-in-your-binary version of a VST3, AUv2 or standalone. Lots of configuration options giving the deployment teams lots of ways to build code and interact with licenses.

You can read the full source for the wrapper (which just released a 0.8.0 version) here: https://github.com/free-audio/clap-wrapper

[BobDog]

Thanks baconpaul, I will take a look.

[ghettosynth]

It looks like it's definitely time to dig deeper into CLAP! I am really tired of this!

Indeed, get in there Blue Cat!

[S0lo]

It looks like it's definitely time to dig deeper into CLAP! I am really tired of this!

Indeed, get in there Blue Cat!

Yeah, I think you will not regret it. Took me around 2-3 weeks to port a VST2 plugin for basic CLAP functionality. And about 8-10 weeks IIRC in total for a fully working CLAP plug, with >8 audio inputs/outputs, MIDI input and output with sysex send/receive capability. And polyphonic modulation/automation of parameters. I recon many other plugins do not have these requirements, so I can't imagine it being much harder than my case. May be just more work if you have many many plugs.

[Blue Cat Audio]

It has always been in the plans to look into it. But supporting a new plug-in format is not much fun and opens the door to even more pain down the line. And remember that we both have plug-ins and hosts, so the cost is not negligible.

Anyway, it looks like Steinberg wants us to get faster on this train, so that's what we'll do. I am sure they have their reasons, but from the outside, their way of doing business with VST is really weird. Too bad.

[MirkoVanHauten]

It has always been in the plans to look into it. But supporting a new plug-in format is not much fun and opens the door to even more pain down the line. And remember that we both have plug-ins and hosts, so the cost is not negligible.

Anyway, it looks like Steinberg wants us to get faster on this train, so that's what we'll do. I am sure they have their reasons, but from the outside, their way of doing business with VST is really weird. Too bad.

Since you are very active in your blog, maybe you could document your (I think rather short) journey to a functioning plugin/host!? That would help others to see how easy it's done or what to look out for, and what the actual benefits are.

[teilo]

Ah but then there is this:

4. Steinberg is entitled to terminate this Agreement with 6 months written notice if Steinberg publishes a new version of VST Software Developer Kit subject to a separate licensing Agreement.

Understand that this is a trigger clause. This clause was in previous VST3 agreements, after 2018. Therefore at any time, Steinberg can start sending out written notices to existing VST3 license holders who released VSTs in any version thereafter, and the clock starts ticking. Six months, and it's over.

There's no doubt that they will do this. The only question is when. Because it will mean that every host that currently uses versions of the VST3 SDK within the last 5 years will have to remove support for VST2 plugins. Therefore it would be wise for everyone to start preparing ASAP, if you have not already.

The only ones who are safe are those who never released any VST3 plugins at all and only support VST2.

[Calagan]

I don't get the technical finesse of all this discussion, but I had a question to @Urs or @Blue Cat Audio : do you think it's technically doable to create a simple feature in any daw that transform a vst2/vst3/Au instance of a plugin into a Clap one (in the case the original version of the plugin is not installed anymore) ?

A little bit like what is implemented in Cubase and Nuendo regarding the auto migration of older Kontakt instances to Kontakt 7...

I recently transitionned to an Apple Silicon machine, and it's a nightmare to take care of the vst2->vst3 transition of Native Instruments plugins. It's also quite stupid to keep vst2 and vst3 versions of the same plugin installed : my vst2 folder is 10Go !
Because of the Steinberg drama and the NI mess, I'm slowly using vst3 in my sessions instead of vst2, but what about recalling old sessions ? It could be amazing to be able to use the clap standard to fix the "old session recall issue". And it could be an amazing argument for the adoption of clap plugin by big Daws.
For exemple, try to imagine the comparative advantage it would get if Live would let you use only clap plugins while being able to recall sessions full of vst2/vst3 instances !?!

[Digivolt]

I am sure they have their reasons, but from the outside, their way of doing business with VST is really weird. Too bad.

Yeah, it makes them look like assholes for on the surface at least, very little reason to do this