TAL-Drum (v2.3.3)

[Trancit]

Don't see from the product page, but as I understand there is no Decay shape parameter?

it's got an AHDSR for every sample slot

Do you know what a Decay shape parameter is??

[emef]

Don't see from the product page, but as I understand there is no Decay shape parameter?

it's got an AHDSR for every sample slot

Do you know what a Decay shape parameter is??

haha i guess not
hope you'll tell me so i don't make this faux pas again

[SamDi]

Don't see from the product page, but as I understand there is no Decay shape parameter?

It has Attack Shape. But no Decay shape.
Why do you need one?

Are you serious? It is a drum sampler. This is where you want a precise control over a decay of you drum samples. You know, even ordinary synths have one.

I'm not the only one who skipped it, because of this.

So you mean the slope of the decay curve, not the time? Well Battery hasn't one, Simpler on Ableton hasn't one either. Even many ordinary synths don't have one (Sylent, Hive, Repro, ......). Not so pretty standard to have one, I would say.

I fully understand, if you say that you want to have one or need it for your purposes. I don't understand , when it's missing to get fussy and doing so, as if all drum sampler would have it and now it's a big deal breaker for beeing a drum sampler at all.

[imrae]

It looks like there was a topic related to this before but died out quickly: viewtopic.php?t=592193

On a synth, the usual trick to manipulate envelope shapes is self-modulation: assign the envelope value to its own rate controls. If high values make it operate more quickly the character gets more exponential, if they slow it down then the character gets more logarithmic. But in TAL Drum this trick seems to be unavailable for two reasons:

only the AMP envelope attack/decay are available as destinations, and the AMP envelope is not available as a source. Ok, then maybe we can at least do something by assigning ENV1 to the AMP decay?

Well, no, because actually assigning an envelope to AMP decay does nothing at at all. The modulation is visualised but has no audible effect. It seems that when a note is triggered, the envelope sticks to whatever attack/decay values were set at that time. The effect is clear with a high-speed LFO, which seems to just randomise the envelope speed rather than modulate it.

I can live without a shape control, but it does seem a shame to have a modulation matrix with such limited scope. I wonder if these choices were made for efficiency and/or aliasing-suppression.

(By the way, as well as the mod matrix trick, Hive 2 does have the two function generators which have curve controls and can be used as envelopes.)

[gentleclockdivider]

It looks like there was a topic related to this before but died out quickly: viewtopic.php?t=592193

On a synth, the usual trick to manipulate envelope shapes is self-modulation: assign the envelope value to its own rate controls. If high values make it operate more quickly the character gets more exponential, if they slow it down then the character gets more logarithmic. But in TAL Drum this trick seems to be unavailable for two reasons:

It's simple math really , modulating a parameter by itself is squaring it , modulate it once more by itself and now you're cubing it etc...

[kraster]

Interestingly that you mention VICE...
Early Beta's didn't have slicing and i suggested to him, he add slicing to it like VICE (one of the examples I have suggested to him to take a look at)
rsp

Vice is overlooked imho.

One of the best slicers in existence.

I've always found other slicers to be wildly inconsistent or lacking.

Vice seems to replicate that oldschool MPC chopping workflow better than any other plugin I've used.

The trick is being able to trim the loop to the correct length and tell the plugin how many beats it is.

That's how it was on the old MPCs.

That means you can chop to the grid and move the slice points to be flush with the transient and then chop to sixteenths.

Then you just need the old staircase midi pattern and you're good to go. Vice even creates one for you that you can drag and drop.

Combining this with the new recombine transfomation tool in Ableton 12 is a world of fun.

[imrae]

It's simple math really , modulating a parameter by itself is squaring it , modulate it once more by itself and now you're cubing it etc...

That would be what happens if you modulate the envelope depth by its value. (In modular synth terms, mult the output of the envelope to both the input and CV of a bipolar VCA.)

This is modifying the speed so it is calculus.

The solution to

dy/dt = k y

is exponential

[orbeater]

TAL-Drum is a very promising thing. Especially the classic and very solid feel and workflow, the synth-like modulation options and full featured slicing.
The only serious contender in my case is Apisonic's Speedrum 2 (just in public beta). So i wonder now which one i should buy.
In this process, i noticed many points that i want to share. Not only to perhaps getting inspiration for which to purchase.

1.
But at first: here on KVR Database, the version number is out of date. Maybe other TAL products as well... Would be nice if someone could update.

2.
A special request:
How about a free Drum-Sampler like Apisonic's Speedrum-Lite?
Name suggestions:
TAL-Drummy, TAL-Drumlet(te), TAL-Drum trimmed, TAL-Druminion, TAL-Drum junior, TAL-Tin Drum...
Feature suggestions:
just 16 single-layer pads with
+ some of the outstanding "per layer" functions from TAL-Drum, maybe some modulation... plus:
+ the "in-place preview" in browser,
+ undo/redo,
and of course:
+ saving kits that can imported in full TAL-Drum,
then it would be a perfect freebie to get many new fans (and future customers)!

3.
A constructive list of (hopefully all) features TAL-Drum has not (yet), but Speedrum 2 has:
(excuse me, if i'm wrong with one or more points)

- free "lite" version. Very handy for first tasks, and when it needs complexity, import kit in full version.
- built-in sequencer (nice, but not (yet) enough to replace geist or even megababy..)
- 16 layers per pad
- main display for values and tips (+ option to show extra keyboard/mouse tips)
- more preferences (customizability)
- more FX (distortion types, ring-mod, transient-shaper, send FX)
- simple LP filter per layer
- 12 filter types
- geist, etc. import
- roundrobin "random exclusive" mode
- pad lock for all pad settings (at once)
- file-browser can select and load multiple files at once
(-) mixer with buses/master channel
(-) "trigger maps" (selectable MIDI note assignments)
(-) stereo layers can switched mono in 3 ways: l+r mixed, left only, right only
(-) file-browser preview output channel selectable

4.
Finally, the pros list, what TAL-Drum (for now) got over Speedrum(2):

+ GUI layout more effective (e.g.: 64-pads overview, file-browser looks cleaner)
+ slicer with direct "apply to pads" and midi export respective groove
+ loop ability (per layer)
+ more lo-fi abilities (resampler and "AK4I" stretching) (per layer)
+ comb-filter (and all filters per layer)
+ LFO, assignable spline envelope, more envelopes, EQ, mod matrix (all per layer!)
+ sampling (recording and editing)
+ undo/redo
+ "make chromatic" ability for one pad, up to +/- 24 semitones
+ stereo layers: can switch channels, can narrow width smoothly down to mono
+ velocity curve for every pad
+ roundrobin for (poly/monophonic) voice-groups
+ 12 automation controller and "panel mode" (clean up external control issues)
+ midi learn lock-able
+ "in-place preview" can load a sample temporary into performing pad
+ 64 voice-groups with "voice stealing fade-out" ability
(but fade-time can affect groove heavily! bonus humanization)

+/- pad lock, for note mapping and/or pad name when changing kits/pads, but not for samples? Right?

All this is not just crying over missing features. Mainly for clearing if i overlooked some point that works too. And if just some user or even a developer got a little bit inspired, then it was worth it.

Thank you very much for reading

[SamDi]

It looks like there was a topic related to this before but died out quickly: viewtopic.php?t=592193

On a synth, the usual trick to manipulate envelope shapes is self-modulation: assign the envelope value to its own rate controls. If high values make it operate more quickly the character gets more exponential, if they slow it down then the character gets more logarithmic...

But doesn't the spline MOD envelope do the thing for you, if you then really need it?

I also thought the trick is rather to modulate the level or modulation itself than the rate. It's true that you then get no logarithmic/exponential behaviour, but a squared one, but does it make really then a big difference for perception? The advantage is, that you just modulate the slope, while with the rate modulation you always have the interdependence between the rate modulation and the env parameter, which sounds like a pretty mess to me to get it right.

[kmonkey]

Love to see lads exaggerating missing features and then crying about it. Fortunately, life is neverending so we can wait.

[neverbeeninariot]

Version 2.3.3 / 08.04.2024
* Minor fixes.

Version 2.3.2 / 05.04.2024
* 8 mappings/samples per pad.
* Matrix: INV option added (inverts the value for unipolar modulations).
* Matrix: Loop-end / sample-end modulation targets added.
* Mapping: Full-featured high-quality parametric EQ added.
* Mapping: Veloctiy-range text edit fields added.
* Mapping: Mute option added.
* Mapping: Show reverse envelope and LFO curves for reversed samples.
* Mapping: Waveform-zoom is also possible without a mouse wheel in the waveform-overview.
* EDIT button for fast mapping-editor access.
* Hidden system files are not visible anymore in the file browser.
* Cleaned up UI.
* Framework update.

[FrettedSynth]

Nice update, thank you for adding the velocity range field.

[gentleclockdivider]

wow , what an incredibe update

[Caine123]

i need to update TAL Drum cause i remember it couldnt? slice/autoslice samples easily like VICE, can anyone maybe share their experiences? i can check in some days.

[orbeater]

So,
we have 8 layers per pad now.
8 x 64 = 512
And every layer got it's own resonant filter, LFO, envelopes, mod-matrix and now a top-notch EQ too?
Up to 512 independent instances of them all?

Wohow! Crazy beats are incoming!