FR: different Live Sync Modes for scene playback and sequence recording

[Hermu]

different quantisation settings for recording and playback.
for recording i want to set Quantisation to "1 Beat" but never to "1 Bar"
for playback i want to set Quatisation to "1 Bar"
but MuLab has only a quantisation setting for recording and playback
it would also ok, if MuLab uses always a 1 beat quantisation for recording, because more makes no sence.

[mutools]

First of all: Switching Sync Modes all the time is not the goal.

The thing is: You choose to record without quantization. That's ok.
Now when recording into the live matrix and you happen to play a note just a little bit too early and hence it is not quantized then this resulted in a live clip with some empty space before that too early note so to respect the fact that you chose not to quantize recordings. That empty space could be an unwanted side effect of the fact that your first note was a bit too early and not quantized. So after studying this case thoroughly i thought it was a good compromise to only quantizing the first event(s) of a new recording if they're almost on beat, so to avoid that empty space in front of a new live clip. Works fine here. Now you're saying that eventhough you liked this solution it still doesn't work with you.

So please make a screen video that demonstrates where M9.0.34 still goes wrong wrt your workflow when you keep Sync Mode at 1 Bar.

[Hermu]

here is my typical recording result with sync quantisation 1 bar, after pressing recording button also start with playing notes.

[mutools]

I don't hear anything. Please make a video that includes sound.
If you're on windows you can use the built-in screen video recorder.

Also these questions:

* How do you start/stop recording?

* What's the exact time value of the very first recorded event in that video?

[Hermu]

I don't hear anything. Please make a video that includes sound.
If you're on windows you can use the built-in screen video recorder.

Also these questions:

* How do you start/stop recording?

* What's the exact time value of the very first recorded event in that video?

as you can see in my recording video, recording starts on begin of lead sequence and ends before lead sequence is finished. lead sequence is 2 bars long and the recording result for bass is 3 bars long, also one bar more than recording time, because one empty bar was added on beginning.
recording was started with record button on my keyboard, there is only a very short time between press record button and play the first note.
drum sequence is 1 bar long with 32nd notes and created with MuLab drumeditor.
lead sequence is 2 bars long with 16th notes and recorded with sequence recording, quantized and modified.
bass sequence after recording is 3 bars long with 1 bar empty space on beginning, as you can see in my video.

[mutools]

as you can see in my recording video, recording starts on begin of lead sequence and ends before lead sequence is finished. lead sequence is 2 bars long and the recording result for bass is 3 bars long, also one bar more than recording time, because one empty bar was added on beginning.
recording was started with record button on my keyboard, there is only a very short time between press record button and play the first note.

When recording in the Live Matrix it doesn't matter when you start / stop recording, MuLab only looks at the first and last event you recorded and makes a loop out of it based on the Sync Mode.

bass sequence after recording is 3 bars long with 1 bar empty space on beginning, as you can see in my video.

Still: What's the exact time value of the very first recorded event in that video?
I can only assume that it is more than 1/32th from the next beat and hence is regarded as intended to be played before the beat and hence the loop is extended start-wards to respect what you have played.

For example, when Sync Mode is 1 bar:
When recording into the Live Matrix MuLab will take the bar of the first recorded event as start and take the next bar of the last recorded event as end. That will make the newly recorded loop.

[Hermu]

as you can see in my recording video, recording starts on begin of lead sequence and ends before lead sequence is finished. lead sequence is 2 bars long and the recording result for bass is 3 bars long, also one bar more than recording time, because one empty bar was added on beginning.
recording was started with record button on my keyboard, there is only a very short time between press record button and play the first note.

When recording in the Live Matrix it doesn't matter when you start / stop recording, MuLab only looks at the first and last event you recorded and makes a loop out of it based on the Sync Mode.

bass sequence after recording is 3 bars long with 1 bar empty space on beginning, as you can see in my video.

Still: What's the exact time value of the very first recorded event in that video?
I can only assume that it is more than 1/32th from the next beat and hence is regarded as intended to be played before the beat and hence the loop is extended start-wards to respect what you have played.

For example, when Sync Mode is 1 bar:
When recording into the Live Matrix MuLab will take the bar of the first recorded event as start and take the next bar of the last recorded event as end. That will make the newly recorded loop.

anyway, recording result should always in time from start to stop recording and in this video it was shorter than 2 bars, but recording result is 3 bars, also 1 bar longer and this is for live recording unusable, because live recording results should always have 1,2,4,8 .. or 1,3,9.. bars in one scene, to have a synchron playback result.
also, if a recording time is not longer than 2 bars, recording result should only have maximum 2 bars and not 3 bars, that´s the point.

[mutools]

recording result should always in time from start to stop recording

It's not because Live works that way that all music apps must work that way.
I think the way MuLab does it also has its advantages, it's more relaxed to record.
You can start recording and wait for the right momentum to play your new riff.

and in this video it was shorter than 2 bars, but recording result is 3 bars, also 1 bar longer

You still didn't answer this essential question, so i'll try a 3rd time:
What's the exact time value of the very first recorded event in that video?
I can only assume that it is more than 1/32th from the next beat and hence is regarded as intended to be played before the beat and hence the loop is extended start-wards to respect what you have played.

If it was not intended to be played that much off grid then that's the very cause of your unexpected result, imho.

because live recording results should always have 1,2,4,8 .. bars, to have a synchron playback result.

I'm open to that. What do others think about this? Should recordings in the Live Matrix follow this rule?

also, if a recording time is not longer than 2 bars, recording result should only have maximum 2 bars and not 3 bars, that´s the point.

So are you saying that if you record notes from 1.4.0 to 2.3.0 (less than a bar) then that the resulting loop must be 1 bar, starting with the notes played in the 2.1.0 -> 2.3.0 range and that the notes in the 1.4.0 -> 2.1.0 time range should be auto wrapped to that 1 bar loop?
I doubt if this would fit everyone's expectation.

Other opinions welcome.

PS: I still think that a full screen video with sound would be helpful in this discussion.

[Hermu]

let´s have a look to Ableton Live:

it has recording option settings:
no quantisize
1/4 .. 1/32 notes quantisize

recordig starts with press a empty clip button and ends with press this clip button again.
all played notes between start and stop recording are recorded in time (with quantization) and the end will increased to next bar if necessary.
thats all and it works prefect for me.

[mutools]

with quantization

I thought you wanted no quantization.

thats all and it works prefect for me.

Ok, i understand your preference.

I'll keep M9's recording as is for now and will keep listening to other user feedback regarding this aspect.

[Hermu]

with quantization

I thought you wanted no quantization.

thats all and it works prefect for me.

Ok, i understand your preference.

I'll keep M9's recording as is for now and will keep listening to other user feedback regarding this aspect.

in Ableton Live i have only used no quantisation.
but in MuLab i can only use "Instant" Quantisation for recording and as i wrote in my first post, so i have always to switch to "1 Bar" for playback.
yes, i think it´s good to have another user feedback, but i think without a Scene Sequence recording redesign it will not work.

[mutools]

in Ableton Live i have only used no quantisation.
but in MuLab i can only use "Instant" Quantisation for recording and as i wrote in my first post, so i have always to switch to "1 Bar" for playback.

I have a feeling some things are getting mixed up:
1) There is the quantization of the recorded events. That's defined by the recording grid in the recording setup. Typical value is 1/16th.

2) The launch quantization of live scenes & live clips. That's defined by the sync mode. Typical value is 1 bar.

I understood from your posts that for 1) you want no quantization and for 2) you want 1 bar.

Anyway, it's good that we at least reached a clean & clear 'agree to disagree' point.
I do understand that your prefence is the way AL does it, and i agree that's a good option too.
But i disagree, at this point of my experience, that the way M9 does it is bad and that a complete redesign of that aspect is necessary.
Lets see what others says. Time will tell.

Sincere thanks for your feedback on this

[Hermu]

i have recorded a full screen video with sound, but it´s to large with 114 MB because it´s limited here to 1 MB.

[mutools]

What about uploading it to some cloud space like dropbox, wetransfer, google drive, ... and sharing the link.

[Hermu]

here is a demo how MuLab 9.0.34 sequence recording with 1 bar Quantzation works.
for my understanding, if a 1 Bar Quantization is selected, recording should start always on next bar with position 1, but MuLab adds this 1 Bar on beginning, if recording button was not exact pressed in time on bar position.
and this is a bug.