Thoughts on Ilok?

[Synthman2000]

Something professionals don't think twice about in order to get some of the best audio tools there are.

[himalaya]

A monk once said:

"iLok, therefore iSuffer."

[underscoreraven]

1. Just because things have been hacked doesn't mean there has been no protection, just that there wasn't enough.
2. No, it doesn't mean that at all as iLok is not the only way to protect your investment. Lots of products have equally or more intrusive/difficult protection schemes than iLok. Even a simple serial no. offers some measure of protection. Just look at how much easier it is to find pirated mp3s on line than it is to find pirated plugins.
3. Of course there is a reason many people don't like iLok - the world is full of idiots.

1. If your software is meant to be run on other PCs, like plugins, then someone will find a way eventually. There is no such thing as a foolproof copy protection. And when this comes at the expense of legit users (by pirated copies running faster without ilok) then it's, like all intrusive DRMs and copy protection, just harming legit users. Using especially aggressive copy protection may even incentive groups to pirate it as either a challenge or to punish/expose the company behind it, see acustica audio.

2. Others doing anti consumer practices that are equally bad or worse isn't a justifying point. I'd agree that serial numbers offer enough of a protection, but part of why music files are easier to find is because they are not executible files, but just music. Reduces the need for trust in the website because it's just an audio file, not running code.

3. One could respond equally bad faithed as you but I'm not gonna do that. People are free to choose to buy their software based on whether they like working with it. The copy protection is part of the software and people are free to not pay for software they dislike the workflow of, dislike the company making it, dislike the principles of it or that it violates (DRM putting corporate assets above the user and ofc freedom of the software) or any arbitrary reason. They'd only be idiots for uncritically using iLok software whilst hating everything about it.

[sQeetz]

I bought an USB dongle just because of Empirical Labs.
I have Big FrEQ and Arouser. Use them all the time. But unlike any other company which allows 2 or even 3 machines to use one license, they opted for 2 licenses but only Cloud and USB. If you don't have the dongle you need to constantly register/deregister from one machine to the other (PC & notebook) using iLok cloud.
There were 2 options: buy a second license for both plugins (€350) or the USB iLok for €66... I opted for the latter.
Now I have all my licenses on the dongle in the studio and the cloud "dongle" for the notebook. Am I happy about this? nope.... but on the bright side: ... nah there is none.

[noiseboyuk]

1. Multiple iLok plugins have been hacked

Were all of these iLok 1? I think iLok 2 and 3 plugins are still secure.

[jancivil]

Its interesting, I think the dongle *is* the main value-add for iLok. The Cloud option is no better than any other in the event of a machine "ghosting" where-in the license will be lost. That isnt any better than many other non-dongle DRMs. The dongle is the thing that keeps the licenses off the computer hardware, protecting the licenses from "ghosting" (computer dies and makes the licenses inaccessible).

IMO the customer service of the company you're dealing with is a much bigger factor than the type of DRM system used. The dongle itself can fail, so there's no guarantee you'll keep your licenses forever.

With many companies, it's a simple email and they'll deactivate the orphaned license for you. In some cases you can even do it yourself by logging in to your account. Others make it a lot harder and some simply refuse to help you.

First, it is not true that the cloud activations 'ghost' things. In fact the cloud activations are not tied to the machine. Now, there are some things which still don't use it and here one has only the choice of the license tied to the machine or the dongle.

This last year I had a difficult issue owing to the fact a couple of computers with iLok license manager installed on them were stolen from me; someone was probably using some of the things* I had that used it, and would occasionally close my cloud session. iLok support was seriously responsive and responded same day or if after hours when I contacted them the next morning. It meant cancelling my activations entirely; now a few years ago when these thefts occurred I had to, in order to reauthorize these (*: they were all freebies except for one iirc), contact the vendor for them to do the thing.
In 2023 iLok support did it all for me, and in that short amount of time. It was actually hard to believe how responsive their support was, and every time.

Since VSL went to iLok, replacing the old Steinberg/Syncrosoft licenses (and in the meantime I've quite a few new acquisitions), I wound up with a large number of licenses on the cloud. From 2020 through 2023 (save December) I had wholly reliable wifi. Now in the new place it's a bit dodgy (and I'm not going to deal with xfinity hardware and that crap). I finally got tired of having to reconnect to wifi just to keep working and bought the damned dongle. I hadn't used one of theirs since maybe 2014; it was stupidly big and something that could easily break.
Now I've 156 licenses on the key (I know exactly as I just authorized something to the key). I've had zero problems with these authorizations; it's easy and quick to do. And the new dongle is tiny and virtually indestructible.

I want the higher end products such as that for my music. It's a no-brainer at this point.

[trmupstage]

I've been using an iLok for many years. It's never caused any trouble for me. Some of my favorite software requires it. I have not had a single crash due to iLok. I think people need to decide what tools will help them make their music and get over the copy protection. I personally prefer iLok or a dongle to C/R. A simple serial number is also fine as long as it doesn't have to call home.

[underscoreraven]

1. Multiple iLok plugins have been hacked

Were all of these iLok 1? I think iLok 2 and 3 plugins are still secure.

Pretty sure iLok2 has been broken, and doing some quick searching iLok3 may have been as well, but don't quote me on that. If a plugin supporting both iLok2 and iLok3 means it is using iLok3 and 2 is backward compatibility, then it's confirmed to have been broken.

But since iLok offers both the dongle and dongle-less version, it's possible that an iLok could just be partially broken, with the dongle-less protection obviously easier to circumvent

[underscoreraven]

I've been using an iLok for many years. It's never caused any trouble for me. Some of my favorite software requires it. I have not had a single crash due to iLok. I think people need to decide what tools will help them make their music and get over the copy protection.

Glad that it never caused trouble for you, but it has for some others.

I don't see how people need to get over anything, there are so many alternatives out today that you can make great sounding music just with free stuff, add to that a paid daw and all the developers who don't rely on iLok or similarly disliked protection and you've got more than enough options to choose from.

The reality is simple:
1. Companies aren't owed my money if the product has elements I greatly dislike. (and copy protection is part of the product, the software)
2. But neither am I owed the company changing it's product to appeal to me.

There is no reason to be defensive about it or implying things about people liking or refusing it, this is a situation where we can just let supply & demand play out.

Either enough people start refusing iLok to a point where some might consider a different copy protection for financial reasons, or this never happens and that demographic just gives their money to other developers or looks toward freeware.

[Milkman]

iloathe iLok.

Have had to use it for roughly 30 licenses despite my best efforts to NOT use iLok, and at least 4-5 of those licenses are now broken/not available to me due to a machine that failed. I couldnt deactivate those licenses (12 months ago) when I rebuilt that machine, so I had to ask iLok to recover them from the vendor. 12 months later I've heard nothing from iLok or the vendor, and I've tried to resolve this 2-3 times.

Having to track licenses and delicately handle this "3rd wheel" application that over-complicates everything connected to it is a drag, and it doesnt really stop piracy anyway.

CoughIntelSGXcough. That tech was "bulletproof" and "enclave compute" and all this nonsense back in 2013ish, when they forced TPMs into our mainboards and post-production BIOS changes that broken 4k HDR movies on the desktop, but that tech was also compromised. And I think Intel SGX was compromised before it even fully released all those years ago lmao this isnt to stop piracy, it is to harass those who dont pirate.

[hotmitts]

iloathe iLok.

Have had to use it for roughly 30 licenses despite my best efforts to NOT use iLok, and at least 4-5 of those licenses are now broken/not available to me due to a machine that failed. I couldnt deactivate those licenses (12 months ago) when I rebuilt that machine, so I had to ask iLok to recover them from the vendor. 12 months later I've heard nothing from iLok or the vendor, and I've tried to resolve this 2-3 times.

Having to track licenses and delicately handle this "3rd wheel" application that over-complicates everything connected to it is a drag, and it doesnt really stop piracy anyway.

CoughIntelSGXcough. That tech was "bulletproof" and "enclave compute" and all this nonsense back in 2013ish, when they forced TPMs into our mainboards and post-production BIOS changes that broken 4k HDR movies on the desktop, but that tech was also compromised. And I think Intel SGX was compromised before it even fully released all those years ago lmao this isnt to stop piracy, it is to harass those who dont pirate.

Agree 100 percent, if you have a system failure of any kind it's a right Pain in the arse, and is punitive on those who use it. There has to be a better way nowadays.

[Milkman]

iloathe iLok.

Have had to use it for roughly 30 licenses despite my best efforts to NOT use iLok, and at least 4-5 of those licenses are now broken/not available to me due to a machine that failed. I couldnt deactivate those licenses (12 months ago) when I rebuilt that machine, so I had to ask iLok to recover them from the vendor. 12 months later I've heard nothing from iLok or the vendor, and I've tried to resolve this 2-3 times.

Having to track licenses and delicately handle this "3rd wheel" application that over-complicates everything connected to it is a drag, and it doesnt really stop piracy anyway.

CoughIntelSGXcough. That tech was "bulletproof" and "enclave compute" and all this nonsense back in 2013ish, when they forced TPMs into our mainboards and post-production BIOS changes that broke 4k HDR movies on the desktop, but that tech was also compromised. And I think Intel SGX was compromised before it even fully released all those years ago lmao this isnt to stop piracy, it is to harass those who dont pirate.

Agree 100 percent, if you have a system failure of any kind it's a right Pain in the arse, and is punitive on those who use it. There has to be a better way nowadays.

Hear hear. There has to be a better way. The whole "zero downtime" thing is a joke in the real world.

[kritikon]

iLok is still PACE innit? So I'm pretty sure that PACE eat babies on pizza or something like that. I can't condone that sort of thing.

[sQeetz]

and at least 4-5 of those licenses are now broken/not available to me due to a machine that failed. I couldnt deactivate those licenses (12 months ago) when I rebuilt that machine, so I had to ask iLok to recover them from the vendor. 12 months later I've heard nothing from iLok or the vendor, and I've tried to resolve this 2-3 times.

That's hardly iLok's fault, though...
I once forgot to deactivate my licenses on a PC I was about to format c:/
Installed iLok on the new install, requested to deactivate licenses and within 48 hours everything was clear besides FLUX SOFTWARE ENGINEERING. To this day they somehow refused to even answer to my mails.
But once again: that's not an iLok issue. It's the offending plugin vendor not doing anything towards helping you.

[Milkman]

and at least 4-5 of those licenses are now broken/not available to me due to a machine that failed. I couldnt deactivate those licenses (12 months ago) when I rebuilt that machine, so I had to ask iLok to recover them from the vendor. 12 months later I've heard nothing from iLok or the vendor, and I've tried to resolve this 2-3 times.

That's hardly iLok's fault, though...
I once forgot to deactivate my licenses on a PC I was about to format c:/
Installed iLok on the new install, requested to deactivate licenses and within 48 hours everything was clear besides FLUX SOFTWARE ENGINEERING. To this day they somehow refused to even answer to my mails.
But once again: that's not an iLok issue. It's the offending plugin vendor not doing anything towards helping you.

It's iLok's fault from the inception of the discussion, and from the start of this burdensome, involuntary DRM philosophy.

Allow me to add: its the vendor's fault, too. That's right. Perhaps they should be doing better research and use-case testing before throwing all their customers into the shit?

This is the wrong philosophy-- "if you experience a system failure, that isnt our problem/zero downtime YOLO everyone!" Meanwhile the STATED REASON for iLok was long ago invalid. It doesnt actually stop piracy, lol.

I FORGOT nothing. My system failed due to a mainboard problem, and this is the EXACT reason many, many of us never wanted this trash in the first place. It isnt zero downtime. That is a marketing thing.