Thoughts on Ilok?

[BONES]

If your software is meant to be run on other PCs, like plugins, then someone will find a way eventually.

No-one is disputing that, it would be stupid to do so. If someone really wants to steal your car, they'll steal your car but that doesn't stop you from locking it when you leave it parked on the street, does it? Similarly, every commercial plugin has some form of copy protection and iLok isn't even close the most difficult for end-users. On the contrary, I wish all my software used iLok, it would make my life so much easier.

2. Others doing anti consumer practices that are equally bad or worse isn't a justifying point.

Of course it is, read the f**king title of the f**king thread!

I'd agree that serial numbers offer enough of a protection

Maybe but they are as much a PITA as iLok. More, because I have to do all the work.

but part of why music files are easier to find is because they are not executible files, but just music.

No, it's because they have no DRM. Anyone can share them and they will just work. OTOH, a Kindle book file isn't an executable but it's much harder to find pirated versions of them than it is pirated ePubs.

[sQeetz]

I FORGOT nothing.

The "forgetting" part of my reply was not the main aspect of it.

[Milkman]

I FORGOT nothing.

The "forgetting" part of my reply was not the main aspect of it.

Nor was "forgetfulness" the main aspect of mine. Truncated replies are fun!

[Milkman]

Did someone above write that iLok or other nonsense DRM is a better alternative to, lmao, serial numbers because "I have to manage those myself?"

Managing your house keys must be deeply frustrating. Passwords, themselves, must be a nightmare. Do you hire private security and door locking services that keep your keys for you? Maybe just let security re-key all your locks and put the whole thing behind an identity validation service that relies on you having internet access to open your doors? lmaaao wHaT cOuLD gO wRoNG???!!1

Every *single* serial/activation I am able to manage myself is 100% better and easier for me to manage than using any sort of man-in-the-middle. There isnt ONE single example of heavier DRM that makes my life easier, access faster, rebuilds easier, etc. Not one. Even Native Access<barf> is easier than iLok, and about 5% of the time it randomly breaks a plugin when installing the whole library.

[plexuss]

Did someone above write that iLok or other nonsense DRM is a better alternative to, lmao, serial numbers because "I have to manage those myself?"

Managing your house keys must be deeply frustrating.

Calm down monkey-man. Everyone has their own thing. Live and let live.

[underscoreraven]

No-one is disputing that, it would be stupid to do so. If someone really wants to steal your car, they'll steal your car but that doesn't stop you from locking it when you leave it parked on the street, does it? Similarly, every commercial plugin has some form of copy protection.

There is a difference between protecting my own car and copy protection. The car being protected protects me, the owner and user of it. It doesn't do much for the seller. Copy protection is the inverse, it only protects the seller.

But disregarding that, in the analogy I'm not asking them to not protect their software, but simply that I personally will not buy software whose copy protection impacts performance, be it unnecessary file size like acustica or ilok or just generally force me to do things like insert an usb stick for the sole purpose of protection their profits. That's not my business and it should never be my burden.

It also isn't true that every commercial product has copy protection. 99% sure, but there are some somewhat well known ones like Altitude and Integrate by Nakst who use no copy protection whatsoever.

Of course it is, read the f**king title of the f**king thread!

It may be a thought about ilok, or an opinion even but it's not a valid argument. It's conclusions don't follow from it's premises. "others did it too or worse" doesn't fly anywhere except Kindergarden

Maybe but they are as much a PITA as iLok. More, because I have to do all the work.

Not when allowing to register the serial via regkey, in that case it's even easier than a dongle, as you could keep all licenses in a single very small file.

No, it's because they have no DRM. Anyone can share them and they will just work. OTOH, a Kindle book file isn't an executable but it's much harder to find pirated versions of them than it is pirated ePubs.

There are also less kindle users than those who would want pirated pdfs, unlike a PC a kindle is also a more closed off system iirc. Music having no DRM is a factor, but not the sole factor. In a world in which there was no DRM music piracy would still be easier, from the end user perspective, because much less trust and care is needed before opening a random audio file vs a random executible asking for admin permissions.

[sQeetz]

...> is easier than iLok, and about 5% of the time it randomly breaks a plugin when installing the whole library.

whaaaaa? How? Example!
look, I despise having to deal with iLok as much as any other one, but it's not half as bad as you are trying to portrait it here.
That's at least my experience having to deal with it for more than a decade with more than 150 licenses tied to it.

[BONES]

There is a difference between protecting my own car and copy protection. The car being protected protects me, the owner and user of it. It doesn't do much for the seller. Copy protection is the inverse, it only protects the seller.

What? This makes absolutely no sense. You, as the owner of the car, take advantage of the anti-theft devices to protect the thing you paid a lot of money for from scumbags who think it's OK to steal from you. Similarly, copy protection protects the thing a developer has spent a lot of time and money on, from scumbags who think it's OK to steal from them. Having to lock and unlock you car, think carefully about where you leave it, etc. is exactly the same as having to deal with software protection.

Imagine a world without thieves - you'd never have to get into a hot car on a scorching summer's day again because you could leave all your windows down. You wouldn't need keys because you wouldn't have to lock your car, ever. Immobilisers and car alarms would be unnecessary, wiping hundreds of dollars off the price of a new car. It would make your everyday life so much easier. Similarly, if people didn't pirate software, we wouldn't need any software protection and all our lives would be so much easier. But you seem to be the kind of self-centred a-hole who thinks that a developer's problem should not have anything to do with you, that the entire world should do whatever it takes to ensure your life is as close to perfect as possible, regardless of the cost to them. How about having just the tiniest bit of consideration for developers who have every right to protect the fruits of their labour.

That's not my business and it should never be my burden.

Me! Me! Me! People like you are definitely part of the problem and I imagine most developers would feel relieved not to have you as a customer.

It also isn't true that every commercial product has copy protection. 99% sure, but there are some somewhat well known ones like Altitude and Integrate by Nakst who use no copy protection whatsoever.

Never heard of 'em, probably because they make so little money they can't afford to promote their products and grow their business. But that's OK, right? Its better for everyone that they have no success and eventually have to get a proper job and stop making plugins.

Of course it is, read the f**king title of the f**king thread!

It may be a thought about ilok, or an opinion even but it's not a valid argument. It's conclusions don't follow from it's premises. "others did it too or worse" doesn't fly anywhere except Kindergarden[/quote]
Speaking of which, do I really need to explain this to you? iLok is not the worst way to protect your IP, not even close, yet it is being singled out here.

Not when allowing to register the serial via regkey, in that case it's even easier than a dongle, as you could keep all licenses in a single very small file.

And who is going to make that file for me and what happens if I lose it or it is corrupted? I've had plenty of experience with every manner of copy protection out there and iLok is my favourite because it requires the lest effort and offers me, the end-user, the most flexibility. When I buy the product, it is added to my account and it will work as soon as I install it. No copying and pasting serial numbers of reg keys from an email or a website or worrying about adding them to my serial no. file. Its all done for me.

There are also less kindle users than those who would want pirated pdfs, unlike a PC a kindle is also a more closed off system iirc.

I think you will find that there are far more Kindle users than people who would want to read a book as a PDF file. Like orders of magnitude more people.

[underscoreraven]

Never heard of 'em, probably because they make so little money they can't afford to promote their products and grow their business. But that's OK, right? Its better for everyone that they have no success and eventually have to get a proper job and stop making plugins.

FYI one of their products has been last months choice for the KVR synth challenge.

But regardless: Your post, having errors in facts, arguments and formatting, is easy to address.

But this particular bit shows you are not just bad faith about this, as already obvious before, but just miseral and unpleasant in general and I'm not going to waste my time with you any longer.

Why you are on a forum full of hobbyist musicians with that attitude is beyond me, but also not really my problem. Im sure you'll manage to find someone else to misrepresent in this thread.

[SLiC]

There is some absolutely amazing software instruments and fx that I wouldn't be without that require iLok, there are no 'alternatives' for me for Opus and Falcon and there are lots of stuff I have from other vendors that uses iLok (East West, Eventide, Lexicon, Liquidsonics, Slate Digital, Softube, Solid State Logic, UVI, Zynaptiq etc...). I don't love ilok, but I don't hate it enough to deprive myself of all of that great stuff, and I have no fear at all that I will ever loose my licences (just potentially be inconvenienced). Note- I only use the soft licencer, not the dongle.

[sQeetz]

Truncated replies are fun!

yes.. otherwise si

[Milkman]

Did someone above write that iLok or other nonsense DRM is a better alternative to, lmao, serial numbers because "I have to manage those myself?"

Managing your house keys must be deeply frustrating.

Calm down monkey-man. Everyone has their own thing. Live and let live.

Ah, yes. The wise, middle-of-the-road philosophical comment about <checks notes> iLok DRM software that breaks art. Monkey man? What the f$$$ is wrong with you?

[Milkman]

...> is easier than iLok, and about 5% of the time it randomly breaks a plugin when installing the whole library.

whaaaaa? How? Example!
look, I despise having to deal with iLok as much as any other one, but it's not half as bad as you are trying to portrait it here.
That's at least my experience having to deal with it for more than a decade with more than 150 licenses tied to it.

There are DECADES of examples of this, and just in this thread you can verify for yourself that a LOT of people dont appreciate it.

Its stunning to me lmao that we are debating whether or not 3rd party DRM is a good idea, especially after the last 10 years. I cant relate to most of you on the "pro" side of iLok, and I have a feeling I wouldnt relate to you on much else either.

For example, were any of you DRM ghouls aware that the COUNTRY OF AUSTRALIA, a large western "democracy", is about to trial NO PHYSICAL MEDIA sales in their country?

Do I need to add additional detail about why this is bad, and what it means for the rest of us, or is this obvious enough, even here?

[Milkman]

Meanwhile, in other Twilight Zone-ish realities, we are all discussing DRM in a place where *most of us* should be a little more self conscious and aware of HOW this industry has succeeded at all.

Hint: studies show that piracy is one of the largest drivers of sales across this industry, and all the pro-RIAA, DMCA, MPAA whining in the world wont change that. Many of these software brands OWE THEIR SUCCESS to the earlier community of TRY BEFORE BUY, which exposed 100s of millions of people all around the world to content they never would have had access to otherwise.

No but lets talk about who is stealing from whom, in a western economy that has been stagnant at a wage and compensation level for 40+ years. Lets talk about protecting our products from theft when we live in an economy that steals ALL of our musical, text, and visual ideas, reiterates them, spits them back at us for massive profits and control.

Lets talk about copy protection that MOSTLY annoys paying customers, and doesnt bother pirates much at all. I dont think many of you are serious much at all lol.

[revvy]

"democracy"