Thoughts on Ilok?

[underscoreraven]

Lets just talk about how awesome iLok is, and how good it is for Brands. Let's pretend this is LinkedIn lmao

No one said it was awesome, milkmaid. It's a burden we consumers have to take.
One could exaggerate and say it was the most evil thing in the world like some people here are doing, but it's definitely not.
IMO it's one of the most flexible copy protections out there

It's not a burden we have to take.
Noone has to buy these products, people just want to and don't seem to consider it enough of a burden to not buy it, which is completely fair.

But just because it's not the worst copy protection doesn't mean it's not bad either. You could say it's unfair that iLok is often singled out despite all this, but it being used by quite a handful of big name companies whilst having it's own branding and infrastructure one has to interact with, just makes it easier to remember it and focus on it, vs disliking the concept of challenge/response for verification which is more abstract and something one interacts with in different ways with different designs etc.

It's definitely very unfortunate though that online discussions rarely happen without everything being a superlative, either the best or the worst. Especially annoying when most things aren't bad and the worst, but simply not for them and their workflow

[sQeetz]

Challenge/response copy protection I seem as worse than a key.
One of the reasons I bought a dongle was for not being dependent on an online connection.

[gaggle of hermits]

It's definitely very unfortunate though that online discussions rarely happen without everything being a superlative, either the best or the worst. Especially annoying when most things aren't bad and the worst, but simply not for them and their workflow

be the change you want to see. there is a real irony writing that after taking someone to task over what was clearly a bit of loose phrasing. you have to try real hard to take sqeetz’s intention being that everyone should buy iLok-protected plugins.

[sQeetz]

I really loathe iLok... but it is something I have to deal with. Just like Wu Tang Clan ain't nothing to f* with

[underscoreraven]

It's definitely very unfortunate though that online discussions rarely happen without everything being a superlative, either the best or the worst. Especially annoying when most things aren't bad and the worst, but simply not for them and their workflow

be the change you want to see. there is a real irony writing that after taking someone to task over what was clearly a bit of loose phrasing. you have to try real hard to take sqeetz’s intention being that everyone should buy iLok-protected plugins.

It was not my intention to present their intention as such and I don't think I did.

Pointing out that noone has to buy ilok protected software does not mean that I think they must have meant that everyone needs to buy ilok, and I don't see how that can be read into that.
Like this is precisely the point I mean regarding superlatives, saying something isn't bad doesn't mean the inverse is true, something can be neither good nor bad, just average.

Similarily, replying "noone has to buy it" to "we have to take the burden" doesn't mean that I must have taken "we" as everyone, "noone has to" is an equally appropriate response to "some have to" as well as "everyone has to".
I considered it obvious that "we" are those that want the software, and aren't interested in any alternatives, because while they exist, they are rarely the exact same.
Is it not crystal clear that I couldn't have taken "we" as everyone when right after I acknowledge that some don't care about this whole copy protection topic? As was my literal next line, they just want the software and are happy with that. If I'd have taken it as you describe, or maliciously tried to present it as such, then "we have to" -> "noone has to" -> "people just want to" would have to mean that "people" applies to everyone, which is very clearly not my message.
We could go even further, I don't have a problem with recognizing that some don't even consider iLok a burden, and would even actively like iLokless alternatives less. Good for them!

I think the real irony is that your reply, accusing me of ironically misrepresenting intent, does exactly what you accuse me of.

So since elaboration is apparently necessary, what I specifically meant regarding "noone has to buy" is that in music software, public refusal and protest has worked uniquely well so far, see minimal current and bitwigs spectral thing. Or in other words: This is a simple demand and supply story (as I have stated earlier in the thread, in case of any disbelief). If the amount of people refusing iLok were to grow to be a significant enough demographic, then companies might reconsider using it for their new product. That's all I meant. I believe I have mentioned something similar earlier in the thread as well.

[gaggle of hermits]

that is one mighty pretzel of a post.

[HHUKRadio]

Thoughts on Ilok?

Irritating but necessary. Some excellent developers have gone down the pan because of piracy.

Many years ago when people thought the earth was flat and I was an immature young electronics geek and musician, my idea of a good Saturday evening was scrolling through various "alt.binaries..." newsgroups looking for dodgy music software.

Then I got a job in radio and started making my own music and selling it. I then saw the problem that software developers come up against.

Do I like iLok? No.
Is it necessary? Yes

People will always want something for nothing.

[Milkman]

Lets just talk about how awesome iLok is, and how good it is for Brands. Let's pretend this is LinkedIn lmao

No one said it was awesome, milkmaid. It's a burden we consumers have to take.
One could exaggerate and say it was the most evil thing in the world like some people here are doing, but it's definitely not.
IMO it's one of the most flexible copy protections out there

In a sea of burdensome copy protection -- that once again causes problems mostly for PAYING CUSTOMERS and not pirates lmao (Ill say this as many times as I need to) -- it isnt an endorsement of said DRM software to say "it isnt the most evil thing in the world".

I am missing 4 of my effing licenses right now - for the last 18 months - because a vendor decided to use iLok instead of managing their own serial numbers. I have numerous friends and people Ive networked with who also have this trouble, and I understand that the community has been generally opposed to this nonsense for 20 years.

Bbbbut not in this thread eh. Here, iLok is rad! It's basically part of the music, it is so musical. Anyone who claims to have negative experiences with it? "Tin foil hat durrrrr" or "exaggeration".

I see you, lol.

[Milkman]

Thoughts on Ilok?

Irritating but necessary. Some excellent developers have gone down the pan because of piracy.

Many years ago when people thought the earth was flat and I was an immature young electronics geek and musician, my idea of a good Saturday evening was scrolling through various "alt.binaries..." newsgroups looking for dodgy music software.

Then I got a job in radio and started making my own music and selling it. I then saw the problem that software developers come up against.

Do I like iLok? No.
Is it necessary? Yes

People will always want something for nothing.

Do you have any examples of music software developers that have "gone down the pan because of piracy?" I dont recall any, but I know there have been some interesting assertions made about piracy in the media.

[revvy]

I am missing 4 of my effing licenses right now - for the last 18 months - because a vendor decided to use iLok instead of managing their own serial numbers.

That sucks. Which licenses?

[Milkman]

I am missing 4 of my effing licenses right now - for the last 18 months - because a vendor decided to use iLok instead of managing their own serial numbers.

That sucks. Which licenses?

3 synths from AIR (Hybrid, Iris2, Loomv2) and a Softube Time & Tone bundle thing. More like 7 licenses. Ive tried to get iLok to contact the vendor + I've contacted the vendor 3 times, and at this point I've given up and moved on, losing my licenses. I avoid iLok (and anything similar) like the plague. I would honestly prefer a physical dongle, which I used previously, because I can STILL mostly manage that myself.

The vast majority of my music software is NOT iLok, and that's a good thing. I have to muck through it for about... 30 licenses at this point, but fortunately my most important stuff isnt there.

[_leras]

I am missing 4 of my effing licenses right now - for the last 18 months - because a vendor decided to use iLok instead of managing their own serial numbers.

That sucks. Which licenses?

3 synths from AIR (Hybrid, Iris2, Loomv2) and a Softube Time & Tone bundle thing. More like 7 licenses. Ive tried to get iLok to contact the vendor + I've contacted the vendor 3 times, and at this point I've given up and moved on, losing my licenses. I avoid iLok (and anything similar) like the plague. I would honestly prefer a physical dongle, which I used previously, because I can STILL mostly manage that myself.

The vast majority of my music software is NOT iLok, and that's a good thing. I have to muck through it for about... 30 licenses at this point, but fortunately my most important stuff isnt there.

AIR have been bargain basement for many years, but I'd think Softube would have got back to you.

[Milkman]

I am missing 4 of my effing licenses right now - for the last 18 months - because a vendor decided to use iLok instead of managing their own serial numbers.

That sucks. Which licenses?

3 synths from AIR (Hybrid, Iris2, Loomv2) and a Softube Time & Tone bundle thing. More like 7 licenses. Ive tried to get iLok to contact the vendor + I've contacted the vendor 3 times, and at this point I've given up and moved on, losing my licenses. I avoid iLok (and anything similar) like the plague. I would honestly prefer a physical dongle, which I used previously, because I can STILL mostly manage that myself.

The vast majority of my music software is NOT iLok, and that's a good thing. I have to muck through it for about... 30 licenses at this point, but fortunately my most important stuff isnt there.

AIR have been bargain basement for many years, but I'd think Softube would have got back to you.

AIR is pretty bargain basement, but they are still being actively marketed, sold, and bundled, so we can take that up with their investors. This is of course another good example of a company that shouldnt be trying so hard to DRM+++ their products when those products arent even in their prime anymore, on top of the other issues.

[Zoopy]

i love ilok its my favorite plugin

[mudi1974]

At the end of the day unless we know the numbers of developers regarding sales / piracy then we can't know anything. It's always up to the developer. On the other hand as I can see that companies like u-he have apparently no problem surviving with a simple serial number mechanism ( which is my preferred one) then also I doubt the need of iLok.
But still, I think piracy _is_ a problem which can be seen e.g. with TAL Software changing the serial number scheme to sth more complicated.
At the end of the day you need to decide what is more important: ideology or the musical result. I as a hobbyist don't care unless I have problems. Until now, the only company with which I had problems is Waves as their software several times thought my computer had changed when it clearly did not. So I stopped using their software. iLok did not show any issues with this.