Modular Hybrid Synth (modular 3.0), who would be interested?

[MegaPixel]

Hi,

I'm testing the waters so to speak, putting some feelers out there...

Everyone has their idea of the dream synth for them, what would be perfect for one person is often not perfect for someone else but being modular allows you to make it what you want.

But modular is a bit daunting to many, some think that the modular scene is a bit too complex (voltages and what not) and are driven away and some are love it and are fanatical about it all the way to the hardware side of things...

Me being someone who loves falcon, serum, cherry audio, parts of kontakt (lol) etc etc, you get the idea. I too have my dream synth in mind and I think others might want it too (also open to others ideas)...

So... How many of you would be interested if I built a hybrid modular synth (modular 3.0?), which doesn't go as far as cherry audio or cardinal but is a cross between them and falcon, rapid, serum, phaseplant, rapid etc etc and has some features that no synth has (I have many ideas and open to others ideas also)?

No voltages, no racks, all will be done in vector scalable graphics, each module can be added as many times as you want (or as many times as your computer can handle), it will be fully multi core and be what I think (at the time of writing this have all the components from the best out there all wrapped up in a node editor that actually looks good, handles like a normal synth and most of all is easy to use.

Think vital / phase plant / rapid meets, unreal engine's & blender's node editor crossed with modular synthesis capabilities from cardinal to bitwig's grid, that looks good and is easy to use.

If there's enough interest in this I will see what I can do about building it.

[MegaPixel]

Here's a very very (did I mention VERY?) rough drawing of the concept.

Don't get me wrong, I think that looks like absolute Shiznit, but it gives the basic concept. I have a much cleaner UI in mind and a better way of dealing with multiple groups (tab switching etc).

If enough interest I will get my UI/UX design hat on and spend a week mocking up a real concept.

...And then (lol) if enough interest after that I will build a simulation of it (of sorts, no audio).

[Held]

I like Bitwig's Grid and Blender's node editor, so I voted yes. But only once it can compete with other available synths which, unless you're a coding genius, will probably take years of development.

[pierb]

Love the idea and if you want to do it for fun don't let me discourage you... but if the intention is creating a commercial product it would take years of dev to even get close to MSoundFactory in terms of DSP and features.

Also sounds a lot like Alpha Forever but with samples.

https://www.afmodular.com/

And if Bitwig ever releases something like Reason Rack but with their devices... you'd be out of business.

[bmanic]

Your idea has already been done many times over. Max MSP, Reaktor, Flow Stone, Synth Edit and of course the current king (in my opinion) Alpha Forever (though this one doesn't do any sample stuff.. yet).

[MegaPixel]

I like Bitwig's Grid and Blender's node editor, so I voted yes. But only once it can compete with other available synths which, unless you're a coding genius, will probably take years of development.

Well I've got 22 years of commercial programming experience under my belt... It might help...

If I can get enough interest I will build much more featured concepts for people to take a look at, make suggestions and all being well get behind. If I get that support it will take the team 1 to 1.5 years to build.

As for competing with Bitwig's grid, well it will and wont... You won't quite be constructing signals. And / Or etc wont be needed. But could be but in a more classic synth modular kind of way... Each component will act more like the components from a classical synth but in a node editor. Comprising of:

• Mapping: Key Range mapper (placed before or mid of a node design)
• Sound Source: Oscillator (extended to handle loaded waves, shapes, custom drawn shapes/msegs etc, 2 way signal merge, 3 way signal merge)
• Sound Source: Granulator
• Sound Source: Sampler (More like bitwigs sampler, possibly not in v1.0.0)
• Sound Source: Sample Assign (key or key range to sampler, granulator or oscillator)
• Macros: 16 to 32 (see what the limit is when I get there, I also want to build it so that it can handle sub macros (non daw exposed) these will scale based on what the source macro knob value is. So 1 macro could chain 10 or so other sub macro buttons which are in turn assigned to any parameter on any module. Or just use the macro button as a classic macro button assigned to any value on anything you have created.
• Envelopes / Modulators / LFOs: MSEGs / Free form editors (maybe just 1 kick ass shape editor with any length and number of nodes with classic volume shaper style editing) which can handle all this in 1 go.
• DADSR
• UTILITY: Phase shift (1 knob value shift, add to LFOs or Osc' etc)
• ARP: Rapid Synth Style or feed it some midi
• Presets/Patches: JSON Based, all wav and midi content is located for purchased packs as vendor_name/artist_name/patches, */*/midi, */*/samples etc
• Preset browser that is on par with what I would expect from u-he / phaseplant (mysqli based), baked in ratings so if db is lost you don't loose your ratings

And then some.. I got a big list..

Love the idea and if you want to do it for fun don't let me discourage you... but if the intention is creating a commercial product it would take years of dev to even get close to MSoundFactory in terms of DSP and features.

Also sounds a lot like Alpha Forever but with samples.

https://www.afmodular.com/

And if Bitwig ever releases something like Reason Rack but with their devices... you'd be out of business.

Not really, not really same idea (see list above). I intend to have 3 programmers on it (including me), if there's interest. Once the initial build time is over, I will resume picking up work doing what I do now but if sales are enough then I can grow it, if not I can drop it all on github and maybe the people will start to grow it and maintain it.

Bitwig Brid, RR, Alpha Forever, are not quite classic synth meets modular node editor, well not in my mind, it's what I'm trying to steer away from, it must be: low complexity as in phaseplant, serum and avenger level of complexity, no needing to know what 2,3 or 4 letter labels mean for modular voltage synthesis inputs, outputs etc.

Your idea has already been done many times over. Max MSP, Reaktor, Flow Stone, Synth Edit and of course the current king (in my opinion) Alpha Forever (though this one doesn't do any sample stuff.. yet).

The target of the synth is simplicity, maximum ease of use while maintaining as much flexibility as possible and to extend it. Think classic synth meets modular in a node editor.

If someone who has never seen or touched a modular synthesizer before, but knows the basics of serum and got a vague concept of how node editors work, they should be able to use it, without struggling or googling every 3.142 seconds...

No wire frame node editors and strange boxes/labels or patch holes with just 3 or 4 letters meaning god only what on them etc.

[Held]

I mean, if you can pull it off, that would be amazing, and I'm sure there will be a ton of interest. A modular synth that's as easy as serum would be quite the achievement.

[pierb]

The target of the synth is simplicity, maximum ease of use while maintaining as much flexibility as possible and to extend it. Think classic synth meets modular in a node editor.

What you're describing sounds almost like MSoundFactory or PhasePlant.

MSF has a node editor of sorts, any type of sound generator you can imagine (oscs, samples, FM, additive, etc), and any type of effect you can imagine. All in a somewhat easy to use package compared to modular stuff that deals with signals, voltages, etc.

PhasePlant is super easy to use but I agree it has some limitations like the lack of multisamples, granular, additive, etc. OTOH it seems inevitable they will get there at some point.

If you can pull it off, I'd be very interested though. Lately I've been frustrated with the current limitations of all modular hybrid products (PhasePlant, Falcon, Zebra, MSF, Omnisphere, etc).

[zerocrossing]

I guess I’m interested, but I’m having trouble understanding how this would be different than other products.

[MegaPixel]

I guess I’m interested, but I’m having trouble understanding how this would be different than other products.

Here's a very VERY quick mock-up, quick and dirty, a bit of illustrator and photoshop work, but should give everyone the idea.


It really does make classic synth tasks / features very basic to use and breaks free of all limits.


For those who don't use bitwig not having access to it's modulators to help extend limited VSTs it would be an even more useful instrument.

It will go beyond what bitwig can do in terms of extending limited VSTs with it's modulators, but I still want to expose a bundle of macros to the daw which can be mapped to anything dynamically, so life as usual but also if bitwig or any other daw make something out of scope/relevance to this product which is designed for parameter manipulation etc then you wont have a problem using it with the synth.

I have a lot of ideas/features in mind EG. See the SR Envelope idea in the concept image, that would be just 1 configuration mode for that component, which can be changed from the drop down top left.

This mock-up is a very basic first sketch of the application, showing:

• Scrollable area
• Windowed interface
• Component Selection Panel (drop down click and left right arrows to navigate between types)
• Group Selection (drop down on click or use arrows, create new group with +, delete it with -)
• Scrollable (possibly zoom) main group editor window (it will all be vector graphics so shouldn't be a problem, but hey I'm building it yet lol)
• Panels have 2 modes, minimised and expanded (arrow top right)
• Panels may have many configurations (within limits of the scope/name of that panel)
• An SR Envelope which would dynamically adjust time scale to user drag, this would have 4 fixed points start, Sustain, Release, end. Time scale is reset on SR end for clear view of release duration. Add as many points as you want before and after, effectively going beyond HADSR, ADSR. The drop down would switch mode to alternate types of Envelopes.
• Everything is drag and drop, with extended features on right click

Node Synth One (possible name ) - Early Concept v0.1.0

Click link for larger preview.
https://aftc.io/Node-Synth-Concept-0.1.0.png

[zerocrossing]

I guess I’m interested, but I’m having trouble understanding how this would be different than other products.

Here's a very VERY quick mock-up, quick and dirty, a bit of illustrator and photoshop work, but should give everyone the idea.


It really does make classic synth tasks / features very basic to use and breaks free of all limits.


For those who don't use bitwig not having access to it's modulators to help extend limited VSTs it would be an even more useful instrument.

It will go beyond what bitwig can do in terms of extending limited VSTs with it's modulators, but I still want to expose a bundle of macros to the daw which can be mapped to anything dynamically, so life as usual but also if bitwig or any other daw make something out of scope/relevance to this product which is designed for parameter manipulation etc then you wont have a problem using it with the synth.

I have a lot of ideas/features in mind EG. See the SR Envelope idea in the concept image, that would be just 1 configuration mode for that component, which can be changed from the drop down top left.

This mock-up is a very basic first sketch of the application, showing:

• Scrollable area
• Windowed interface
• Component Selection Panel (drop down click and left right arrows to navigate between types)
• Group Selection (drop down on click or use arrows, create new group with +, delete it with -)
• Scrollable (possibly zoom) main group editor window (it will all be vector graphics so shouldn't be a problem, but hey I'm building it yet lol)
• Panels have 2 modes, minimised and expanded (arrow top right)
• Panels may have many configurations (within limits of the scope/name of that panel)
• An SR Envelope which would dynamically adjust time scale to user drag, this would have 4 fixed points start, Sustain, Release, end. Time scale is reset on SR end for clear view of release duration. Add as many points as you want before and after, effectively going beyond HADSR, ADSR. The drop down would switch mode to alternate types of Envelopes.
• Everything is drag and drop, with extended features on right click

Node Synth One (possible name ) - Early Concept v0.1.0

Click link for larger preview.
https://aftc.io/Node-Synth-Concept-0.1.0.png

OIC, so like Grids in Bitwig? I guess I do get that, if that’s what you’re aiming for. Sounds like an interesting project.

[MegaPixel]

OIC, so like Grids in Bitwig? I guess I do get that, if that’s what you’re aiming for. Sounds like an interesting project.

Pretty much, modular but classic synth component modularity.

A hybrid of modular and classic synths, but leaning more towards classic synths, thus removing much of the complexity allowing people to go beyond the traditional limits without spending months learning how to use CV1, SF Modular, Cherry Audio Voltage Modular, Tracktion Hyperion, Cardinal etc.

Time better spent being creative and making music.

Another mock-up.

Click link to view larger version
https://aftc.io/Node-Synth-Concept-0.2.0.png

[zerocrossing]

OIC, so like Grids in Bitwig? I guess I do get that, if that’s what you’re aiming for. Sounds like an interesting project.

Pretty much, modular but classic synth component modularity.

A hybrid of modular and classic synths, but leaning more towards classic synths, thus removing much of the complexity allowing people to go beyond the traditional limits without spending months learning how to use CV1, SF Modular, Cherry Audio Voltage Modular, Tracktion Hyperion, Cardinal etc.

Time better spent being creative and making music.

Another mock-up.

Click link to view larger version
https://aftc.io/Node-Synth-Concept-0.2.0.png

So how would you expose multiple parameters in each component? I’m assuming something like an oscillator would have many parameters.

[MegaPixel]

So how would you expose multiple parameters in each component? I’m assuming something like an oscillator would have many parameters.

The macro knobs would be exposed to the daw, the internals of each module would be easily referenced to via the programming. It's just a matter of iteration and giving things an ID/Name so that you can link to it.

Component aka Object in programming world, so on create of a module you add to the appropriate groups collection, that will be like OSC1 OSC2, OSC30009, LFO1, SIGNAL MERGE 1, ENV1 etc. Then each component will have it's structure built to a specific template. That template will extend from a base class which will contain methods necessary to handle the storage of what is and isn't allowed to be assigned to a macro. Every knob would have a flag with something like public bool macroWorthy = true; set for each. Then it's just a matter of iteration or look for object key for direct access (will probably save cpu and look up time) (Data patterns).


I also have an idea for a tree / node editor for the macros so they can control many things from 1 knob but at varying amount, macro goes from 0 to 1, sub child knobs of that macro knob (the macro knob) can be assigned to anything on iteration through the groups collection and their child objects and each child knob has a % attached to it, and can also be left in position or do something like visual range arc on the outside of the button.

[ATS]

If it sounds great I will buy it.