Issue with Hive 2 and FL Studio

[Teksonik]

I thought I would drop this here before bothering the good folks at u-he support in case there is a known solution.

So for quite some time I've had an issue with Hive 2 crashing and taking FL Studio with it while browsing presets even my own when I have "Use Fixed Size Buffers" turned off.

But when I have that option turned on then the timing of Arp/Seq patches is negatively affected.

The issue is best described with these two audio clips.

First is with "FIxed Size Buffers" ON

Hive Test 1

Now with "Fixed Sized Buffers" OFF

Hive Test 2

You can hear the difference in the timing. The second one is of course correct.

Anyone else experience this issue? It's gone on for several versions of FL Studio and of Hive as well so not sure which is at fault at this point and it could just be a system specific issue here although the issue does not occur in any other plugins I have installed.

Win 10 21H2 with a Focusrite 6i6 and FR ASIO drivers. I've tested at 44.1K to rule out any issues with using higher rates. I've tried both "Process maximum sized buffers" and "Use maximum buffer size from host".

[tasmaniandevil]

Those crashes or freezes are yet another "dynamic buffer" related FL Studio issue that happens when using the latest Hive and Repro versions.
To completely avoid this, you could install the previous release version of Hive, version 2.1.0, revision 11037.

Or, if you want to keep the latest version 2.1.1 installed, you can try to increase your audio buffer size above 128 samples, e.g. to 256 samples, while keeping both fixed buffer options activated in the plugin wrapper.

The odd timing is caused by activating those buffer options, but a larger buffer size fixed this for some (sadly not for all affected) users.

[Teksonik]

Those crashes or freezes are yet another "dynamic buffer" related FL Studio issue that happens when using the latest Hive and Repro versions.
To completely avoid this, you could install the previous release version of Hive, version 2.1.0, revision 11037.

Are you working on a fix since it's a known issue? Hive is the only one of the dozens of synth plugins I use that exhibits this problem.

Like I said this issue has been around for a while. I don't remember exactly what version of Hive it started with but I'm pretty sure it was long before 2.1.1 or 2.1.0 although I don't know the dates of those releases.

Or, if you want to keep the latest version 2.1.1 installed, you can try to increase your audio buffer size above 128 samples, e.g. to 256 samples, while keeping both fixed buffer options activated in the plugin wrapper.

The issue also occurs at 512 smp (12ms).

The odd timing is caused by activating those buffer options, but a larger buffer size fixed this for some (sadly not for all affected) users.

I can't use a larger buffer size since I play a midi keyboard and need a tighter timing.

[Teksonik]

Looks like I and others first reported the issue of crashes while browsing presets in September 2021. I don't remember what version Hive was at then.

viewtopic.php?t=570788&hilit=Teksonik

[tasmaniandevil]

It was Hive version 2.1.1.
As mentioned, you can grab version 2.1.0 from the release archive if you want.
FL Studio's dynamic buffer system is a nightmare, to be honest. Again and again, it's causing issues in various plugins, that's why they added options to deal with those issues in the plugin wrapper settings. Unfortunately, as you experienced, those options can themselves have side effects.
We'll try to come up with a fix for the next update, but I can't say when that will happen.

[tony10000]

I thought I would drop this here before bothering the good folks at u-he support in case there is a known solution.

So for quite some time I've had an issue with Hive 2 crashing and taking FL Studio with it while browsing presets even my own when I have "Use Fixed Size Buffers" turned off.

But when I have that option turned on then the timing of Arp/Seq patches is negatively affected.

The issue is best described with these two audio clips.

First is with "FIxed Size Buffers" ON

Hive Test 1

Now with "Fixed Sized Buffers" OFF

Hive Test 2

You can hear the difference in the timing. The second one is of course correct.

Anyone else experience this issue? It's gone on for several versions of FL Studio and of Hive as well so not sure which is at fault at this point and it could just be a system specific issue here although the issue does not occur in any other plugins I have installed.

Win 10 21H2 with a Focusrite 6i6 and FR ASIO drivers. I've tested at 44.1K to rule out any issues with using higher rates. I've tried both "Process maximum sized buffers" and "Use maximum buffer size from host".

I have had the exact same issue for quite a while. I reported it to FL Tech support recently and will also share this with Saif Sameer at Image Line.

[tony10000]

It was Hive version 2.1.1.
As mentioned, you can grab version 2.1.0 from the release archive if you want.
FL Studio's dynamic buffer system is a nightmare, to be honest. Again and again, it's causing issues in various plugins, that's why they added options to deal with those issues in the plugin wrapper settings. Unfortunately, as you experienced, those options can themselves have side effects.
We'll try to come up with a fix for the next update, but I can't say when that will happen.

Is it possible you can contact Saif Sameer at Image Line and sort this out?

It seems that most of the other devs have found a workable solution and I have not had to use the "fixed buffers" option in ages with any other plugin except for Hive. Other u-he plugins work just fine with this option turned off. So, something else is causing the crash behavior and it would great if you could figure it out.

[tony10000]

I thought I would drop this here before bothering the good folks at u-he support in case there is a known solution.

So for quite some time I've had an issue with Hive 2 crashing and taking FL Studio with it while browsing presets even my own when I have "Use Fixed Size Buffers" turned off.

But when I have that option turned on then the timing of Arp/Seq patches is negatively affected.

The issue is best described with these two audio clips.

First is with "FIxed Size Buffers" ON

Hive Test 1

Now with "Fixed Sized Buffers" OFF

Hive Test 2

You can hear the difference in the timing. The second one is of course correct.

Anyone else experience this issue? It's gone on for several versions of FL Studio and of Hive as well so not sure which is at fault at this point and it could just be a system specific issue here although the issue does not occur in any other plugins I have installed.

Win 10 21H2 with a Focusrite 6i6 and FR ASIO drivers. I've tested at 44.1K to rule out any issues with using higher rates. I've tried both "Process maximum sized buffers" and "Use maximum buffer size from host".

I would suggest that you open a ticket with Image Line. You can do it inside FL Studio by going to HELP | DIAGNOSTICS | FL Studio Users forum (Looptalk).

I have not been able to reproduce the crashes I have been having. If you can do that, it would be helpful.

[Lbdunequest]

I also have this issue, reported to support, but since then no update came out. Its a pitty because latest update has some great CPU improvements.

[tony10000]

BTW, I am using a 512 buffer. Do you know what feature in 2.1.1 broke Hive in FL Studio?

[tasmaniandevil]

Sorry, so far we don't know what exactly caused this in the latest release version. It might have been something in the mod matrix, or maybe some of the CPU improvements caused it. Or it was something completely different, there have been quite a few internal changes between Hive 2.1.0 and 2.1.1.

Please use Hive 2.1.0 until we can offer a fix.

[tony10000]

Sorry, so far we don't know what exactly caused this in the latest release version. It might have been something in the mod matrix, or maybe some of the CPU improvements caused it. Or it was something completely different, there have been quite a few internal changes between Hive 2.1.0 and 2.1.1.

Please use Hive 2.1.0 until we can offer a fix.

I am just going to revert to Hive 2.1.0 and call it a day. That one seems to be more stable.

[Lbdunequest]

Is it possible to make that a priority for hive updates? Latest version has been released quite a while.

[Teksonik]

Thanks for all the reports everybody. At least I know now that it's not a issue specific to my studio system.

until we can offer a fix.

Ok fair enough, that's all we can ask. If you need help with testing please let me know.

I'll keep 2.1.1 installed but as a workaround I can keep Fixed Buffers On while browsing presets then turn it off when I use a Hive Arp/Seq patch in a project.

However that's not a workaround I'd like to use for any length of time. The other option would be to stop using Hive until a fix is found but it's one of my most used synths so I'd rather not go there.

Of equal concern is that you say Repro is also affected and I was thinking of picking it up during the sale but that doesn't seem like a prudent move now if it's going to cause the same problems.

[MirkoVanHauten]

What exactly is the issue with dynamic buffer sizes? Are u-he plugins coded to rely on assumed fixed sizes? Isn't it just the amount of samples that are processed per block? Why should that create issues? I'm trying to understand why this is an issue for only a few plugins and only a few users.