Hi folks,
You probably don't want to spill any technical beans, but i've been trying to work out what's happening with SubLab XL's distortion module (specifically the Dark Drive setting) because i want to use the same distortion on other synths.
But try as i might, i can't recreate the sound with other distortion plugins.
I've made a thread about it here:
viewtopic.php?t=591996
Curious if you want to shed any insight on it?!
Question about SubLab XL distortion
) sauce that we put together because it specifically sounds nice on sub-bass sounds. -
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 523 posts since 8 May, 2012 from E.U.
Hi Gavin,
Ok, understandable!
About the envelopes, I'll just give you my honest opinion:
I read on your website about your philosophy of keeping it simple, and that's great and makes total sense and it's why SubLab is such a fun and playable instrument.
But to play devil's advocate for a moment: if you look at just the raw power to create different kinds of kicks, i think in some ways Kick 2 is superior, simply because of the envelopes.
Most of the Kick 2 presets only use a sample for that little very short attack transient, and there's a lot of sculpting possibilities for the amp and pitch envelopes.
Obviously SubLab is waaay better in many ways, but i think its fair to say it relies more on meatier kick samples to provide the first part of the kick, simply because the envelopes don't have any sculpting possibilities beyond the normal synth-type envelopes, and you can't even change the slope (which you can on most synths these days).
So my suggestion for SubLab XXL would be to provide an expert mode in which you can open up a very big envelope window where you can add envelope points and curves. For me, the benchmark of how to do envelope editing is the Cableguys approach (soft, medium and hard angles).
And i would let users add more envelopes and let us assign them to modulation destinations in the effects and supersaw section.
And to get really into the nitty-gritty, and specifically talking about the pitch envelope, which is key to creating kicks and 808 style basses: by each point in the envelope, i would (optionally) display both a hertz and note value. And if you reduce the "amount" value in the pitch envelope, then the drawn envelope on-screen shouldn't reduce in size, but there should be a hertz scale on the left that reduces, and also the hertz / note value display by a point should also change accordingly. So imagine your pitch envelope is just a simple one like it is now, going from 20k to 40hz. If you reduce the "amount" to 5%, the top point on the envelope should now display 200hz (or whatever). And you might want to add a (tweakable) horizontal line around which it scales. So say you have a tuned kick at 60 hz. But you might want it to go down to 50hz, then settle at 60hz. If you put your horizontal ("scale around") line at the 60hz point, it'll scale around that horizontal line with the 60hz point remaining at 60hz, even if you change "value" from 100% to 10%. So in this scenario, you might want to rename "value" to "scale".
In fact i'm not aware of this ever being done before (scale around) and might be interesting for creating new sounds when you automate or modulate that "value / scale" parameter.
And there are also things like snap to note value that could be cool.
Anyways, sorry for the long suggestion list and keep up the great work!
Ok, understandable!
About the envelopes, I'll just give you my honest opinion:
I read on your website about your philosophy of keeping it simple, and that's great and makes total sense and it's why SubLab is such a fun and playable instrument.
But to play devil's advocate for a moment: if you look at just the raw power to create different kinds of kicks, i think in some ways Kick 2 is superior, simply because of the envelopes.
Most of the Kick 2 presets only use a sample for that little very short attack transient, and there's a lot of sculpting possibilities for the amp and pitch envelopes.
Obviously SubLab is waaay better in many ways, but i think its fair to say it relies more on meatier kick samples to provide the first part of the kick, simply because the envelopes don't have any sculpting possibilities beyond the normal synth-type envelopes, and you can't even change the slope (which you can on most synths these days).
So my suggestion for SubLab XXL would be to provide an expert mode in which you can open up a very big envelope window where you can add envelope points and curves. For me, the benchmark of how to do envelope editing is the Cableguys approach (soft, medium and hard angles).
And i would let users add more envelopes and let us assign them to modulation destinations in the effects and supersaw section.
And to get really into the nitty-gritty, and specifically talking about the pitch envelope, which is key to creating kicks and 808 style basses: by each point in the envelope, i would (optionally) display both a hertz and note value. And if you reduce the "amount" value in the pitch envelope, then the drawn envelope on-screen shouldn't reduce in size, but there should be a hertz scale on the left that reduces, and also the hertz / note value display by a point should also change accordingly. So imagine your pitch envelope is just a simple one like it is now, going from 20k to 40hz. If you reduce the "amount" to 5%, the top point on the envelope should now display 200hz (or whatever). And you might want to add a (tweakable) horizontal line around which it scales. So say you have a tuned kick at 60 hz. But you might want it to go down to 50hz, then settle at 60hz. If you put your horizontal ("scale around") line at the 60hz point, it'll scale around that horizontal line with the 60hz point remaining at 60hz, even if you change "value" from 100% to 10%. So in this scenario, you might want to rename "value" to "scale".
In fact i'm not aware of this ever being done before (scale around) and might be interesting for creating new sounds when you automate or modulate that "value / scale" parameter.
And there are also things like snap to note value that could be cool.
Anyways, sorry for the long suggestion list and keep up the great work!
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 523 posts since 8 May, 2012 from E.U.
lil' update:
Listening to the distortions a bit more and looking at them on the scope, i having a feeling they might not be distortions at all, but are actually synthesized by mixing wave types, waveshaping, folding etc.
Because the distortion is so even and controlled, played up and down the keyboard, it almost can't be real distortion, it sounds too perfect and synthesized.
Kinda reminds me of Razor, with its simulated effects and reverb. Correct me if i'm wrong!
But what about the fact that the samples also run through the distortion? Well, i just did a little experiment: i imported my clean triangle wave (which originated in SubLab) as a sample, and ran it through the distortion. It sounds completely different than the triangle generated directly in SubLab running through the exact same distortion settings!
Actually, the last 3 distortions sound the same, the first 3 sound synthesized (for the synth part).
Listening to the distortions a bit more and looking at them on the scope, i having a feeling they might not be distortions at all, but are actually synthesized by mixing wave types, waveshaping, folding etc.
Because the distortion is so even and controlled, played up and down the keyboard, it almost can't be real distortion, it sounds too perfect and synthesized.
Kinda reminds me of Razor, with its simulated effects and reverb. Correct me if i'm wrong!
But what about the fact that the samples also run through the distortion? Well, i just did a little experiment: i imported my clean triangle wave (which originated in SubLab) as a sample, and ran it through the distortion. It sounds completely different than the triangle generated directly in SubLab running through the exact same distortion settings!
Actually, the last 3 distortions sound the same, the first 3 sound synthesized (for the synth part).
