Tablet & DAC & Streaming Music Listening Questions

[Kalamata Kid]

Found out that some iPads play lossless audio from the headphone jack. Not all iPads have a 3.5mm headphone port. Need to find the cheapest iPad that has a Headphone jack and can play lossless audio.

Found an iPad Air (3rd Generation) for $165 at ebay
Found an iPad (6th Generation) for $125 at ebay
I compared the models and for a bit more the iPad Air seems the way to go for me. This will be the simplest way to get high quality audio into my receiver. I will use a 3.5mm to RCA cable. No external DAC nor a USB hub will be required.

Apple devices that will play Lossless Audio
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05 ... t-you-need

Which iPads Have Headphone Jack?
https://wolfoftablet.com/do-ipads-have-headphone-jacks/

Compare iPad models
https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?mod ... ni-5th-gen

Note:
iPadOS 16 is compatible with the iPad (5th generation and later), iPad mini (5th generation and later), iPad Air (3rd generation and later), and all iPad Pro models.

[BertKoor]

Word of warning:

I have a small affordable Marmitek bluetooth receiver for similar purpose (the 'BoomBoom 90' model, what a horrible product name) which definitely gives superior quality compared to my previous laptop's headphone out, which was good enough directly on headphones but surprisingly noisy when using that as line out. With other devices the headphone out used to be perfect, but it turns out there are exceptions.

That laptop with noisy headphone output (only when used as line out) was an 2015 MacBookPro. Never really tried it on an iPad or iPhone, all my Samsung phones and portable CD/MP3 players did not have that issue.

[BONES]

Found an iPad Air (3rd Generation) for $165 at ebay
Found an iPad (6th Generation) for $125 at ebay

You do understand that older iPads don't have USB ports, right?

[Kalamata Kid]

^^^
Thanks for the caution.
I already have an iPad Air Gen 1, and use the lightning for charging but if I need a USB port I can always get an adaptor.
Keep in mind that I will get the audio from the headphone port. Use a 3.5mm mini to RCA to the receiver. But now need to see what BertKoor has to say.

[Kalamata Kid]

Word of warning:

I have a small affordable Marmitek bluetooth receiver for similar purpose (the 'BoomBoom 90' model, what a horrible product name) which definitely gives superior quality compared to my previous laptop's headphone out, which was good enough directly on headphones but surprisingly noisy when using that as line out. With other devices the headphone out used to be perfect, but it turns out there are exceptions.

That laptop with noisy headphone output (only when used as line out) was an 2015 MacBookPro. Never really tried it on an iPad or iPhone, all my Samsung phones and portable CD/MP3 players did not have that issue.

I connected my iPad Air (gen 1) from headphone (not lossless) to RCA to the receiver to speakers and all seemed ok except on some Ambient pieces (from Ambient online) the bass got a bit muddy. I will spend some time comparing the headphones vs the speaker to see if I get any noise. Perhaps best to compare the headphones directly from the iPad vs the headphones from the receiver.

If the noise was there it did not seem obvious to me as I was so happy I got it working and much enjoying listening the music.

[Kalamata Kid]

Regarding the noise, to avoid any possibility of having this issue I should get the USB DAC whether I go with the iPad or with a Android tablet? Get a DAC that has RCA's out to the receiver.

[BertKoor]

I find the term DAC too abstact. It can be any Digital 2 Analog Converter in any shape or form, accepting whatever is digital. Optical S/P-Dif over TOS-Link, or AES/EBU on coax? That's what I imagine by a signal chain where you'd use a DAC.
When you connect it as a USB audio device, then it is exactly that: a USB audio device.

If your tablet has USB ports and works with class-compliant USB audio devices, then that could work. Not necessarily RCA, 3.5mm trs can work just as well.
But I personally found the route via BlueTooth had advantages.

[Kalamata Kid]

From all the reading that I have done Bluetooth does not have lossless capability.
All my headphones are of the wired type. I have no plan's to buy any type of headphones.
When the audio gets to the receiver I will listen to the music through the speakers or headphones.

Getting my music streaming set up has been an education. It has been very time consuming and as yet still not 100% decided on the direction to go. I am having a hell of a time to find if an Android tablet has lossless audio through the headphone jack. This is not stated in the product literature.

I will spend some time checking for noise in my current temporary/test setup.

[BertKoor]

From all the reading that I have done Bluetooth does not have lossless capability.

True that...

Do you watch TV or DVD, ever go to a cinema or listen to FM/DAB+ radio? How do you find the audio quality?

Every bloody thing you hear nowadays in public has been lossless encoded at some stage of the travel. It's just not 64kbps mp3 anymore but 512kbps aac.

I am having a hell of a time to find if an Android tablet has lossless audio through the headphone jack. This is not stated in the product literature.

It's analog. Analog is not lossless/ lossy. Only digital is that.

[Kalamata Kid]

The way understand it, the internal DAC in a tablet may or may not have lossless capability prior to the conversion to analog. As stated in the earlier post here a few iPads do have lossless prior to the conversion to analog. Would be great if I found which Android tablets have the same processing.

My car and bedroom listening is all from CD's, mostly classical. The quality here varies depending on how they were recorded. A few years back I did an A/B test. Found it difficult to always pick the correct one. But when listening over time, the CD quality audio over compressed audio was more enjoyable to listen to. I gave up the X-M radio and went back to listening to CD's.

[BertKoor]

The way understand it, the internal DAC in a tablet may or may not have lossless capability prior to the conversion to analog.

So?? If not, then the cpu of the tablet will decode. You won't ever get scrambled audio.
Afaic it's a black box: it just works.

[Kalamata Kid]

Checked out my current temporary audio streaming set up and did not notice any noise.
I have tinnitus so it could be there but just can't hear it.

[Kalamata Kid]

For the last 25 years or so at home and in the car I have been listening to music only from CD's. Mostly happy with the audio quality.

Signed up for the free three month demo of the Spotify music app. Seems ok. I will later try Apple Music to compare.

Got tired of research on which tablet to get so visited the local BestBuy and in the process ended up purchasing the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 lite. My first impression was not good. The audio sound a bit thin.

Looks like I will have to add an external USB DAC as stated in an earlier post

[BertKoor]

If you really wanna know what's going on, then go measure it.

• Get this tool: https://audio.rightmark.org/products/rmaa.shtml
• Play around with it, measure your own audio interface in loopback for instance
• Export WAV test tones on your PC, transfer these to your tablet
• Connect audio out of the table to line in of your best audio interface on the PC
• Play the WAV test tones on the tablet, while RMAA analyses it

I've burnt these test WAV files to CD in the past to measure how my various CD players performed.
I suggest you do the same, it's addictive

[Kalamata Kid]

BertKoor, thanks for taking the time to respond with what seems to me are good suggestions.
I have already spent way too much time on the project so I will likely not do any of them.
I will listen to the tablet for a few days to see if I feel the same about the audio quality.

The audio quality from the iPad Air gen 1, seems better then the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 lite tablet.
Yes I could be wrong about my first impression about the audio quality. I will give it a few days.

I played Beethoven's seventh a piece I am familiar with and it did not move me at all.
Yes it could be that it was a bad recording or the orchestra or the conductor was bad.