Tablet & DAC & Streaming Music Listening Questions
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
Found out that some iPads play lossless audio from the headphone jack. Not all iPads have a 3.5mm headphone port. Need to find the cheapest iPad that has a Headphone jack and can play lossless audio.
Found an iPad Air (3rd Generation) for $165 at ebay
Found an iPad (6th Generation) for $125 at ebay
I compared the models and for a bit more the iPad Air seems the way to go for me. This will be the simplest way to get high quality audio into my receiver. I will use a 3.5mm to RCA cable. No external DAC nor a USB hub will be required.
Apple devices that will play Lossless Audio
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05 ... t-you-need
Which iPads Have Headphone Jack?
https://wolfoftablet.com/do-ipads-have-headphone-jacks/
Compare iPad models
https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?mod ... ni-5th-gen
Note:
iPadOS 16 is compatible with the iPad (5th generation and later), iPad mini (5th generation and later), iPad Air (3rd generation and later), and all iPad Pro models.
Found an iPad Air (3rd Generation) for $165 at ebay
Found an iPad (6th Generation) for $125 at ebay
I compared the models and for a bit more the iPad Air seems the way to go for me. This will be the simplest way to get high quality audio into my receiver. I will use a 3.5mm to RCA cable. No external DAC nor a USB hub will be required.
Apple devices that will play Lossless Audio
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05 ... t-you-need
Which iPads Have Headphone Jack?
https://wolfoftablet.com/do-ipads-have-headphone-jacks/
Compare iPad models
https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?mod ... ni-5th-gen
Note:
iPadOS 16 is compatible with the iPad (5th generation and later), iPad mini (5th generation and later), iPad Air (3rd generation and later), and all iPad Pro models.
Last edited by Kalamata Kid on Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
- KVRAF
- 15279 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
Word of warning:
That laptop with noisy headphone output (only when used as line out) was an 2015 MacBookPro. Never really tried it on an iPad or iPhone, all my Samsung phones and portable CD/MP3 players did not have that issue.BertKoor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:43 am I have a small affordable Marmitek bluetooth receiver for similar purpose (the 'BoomBoom 90' model, what a horrible product name) which definitely gives superior quality compared to my previous laptop's headphone out, which was good enough directly on headphones but surprisingly noisy when using that as line out. With other devices the headphone out used to be perfect, but it turns out there are exceptions.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15970 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
You do understand that older iPads don't have USB ports, right?Kalamata Kid wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 6:49 amFound an iPad Air (3rd Generation) for $165 at ebay
Found an iPad (6th Generation) for $125 at ebay
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
^^^
Thanks for the caution.
I already have an iPad Air Gen 1, and use the lightning for charging but if I need a USB port I can always get an adaptor.
Keep in mind that I will get the audio from the headphone port. Use a 3.5mm mini to RCA to the receiver. But now need to see what BertKoor has to say.
Thanks for the caution.
I already have an iPad Air Gen 1, and use the lightning for charging but if I need a USB port I can always get an adaptor.
Keep in mind that I will get the audio from the headphone port. Use a 3.5mm mini to RCA to the receiver. But now need to see what BertKoor has to say.
Last edited by Kalamata Kid on Sat Sep 02, 2023 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
I connected my iPad Air (gen 1) from headphone (not lossless) to RCA to the receiver to speakers and all seemed ok except on some Ambient pieces (from Ambient online) the bass got a bit muddy. I will spend some time comparing the headphones vs the speaker to see if I get any noise. Perhaps best to compare the headphones directly from the iPad vs the headphones from the receiver.BertKoor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:48 am Word of warning:That laptop with noisy headphone output (only when used as line out) was an 2015 MacBookPro. Never really tried it on an iPad or iPhone, all my Samsung phones and portable CD/MP3 players did not have that issue.BertKoor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:43 am I have a small affordable Marmitek bluetooth receiver for similar purpose (the 'BoomBoom 90' model, what a horrible product name) which definitely gives superior quality compared to my previous laptop's headphone out, which was good enough directly on headphones but surprisingly noisy when using that as line out. With other devices the headphone out used to be perfect, but it turns out there are exceptions.
If the noise was there it did not seem obvious to me as I was so happy I got it working and much enjoying listening the music.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
Regarding the noise, to avoid any possibility of having this issue I should get the USB DAC whether I go with the iPad or with a Android tablet? Get a DAC that has RCA's out to the receiver.
Last edited by Kalamata Kid on Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
- KVRAF
- 15279 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
I find the term DAC too abstact. It can be any Digital 2 Analog Converter in any shape or form, accepting whatever is digital. Optical S/P-Dif over TOS-Link, or AES/EBU on coax? That's what I imagine by a signal chain where you'd use a DAC.
When you connect it as a USB audio device, then it is exactly that: a USB audio device.
If your tablet has USB ports and works with class-compliant USB audio devices, then that could work. Not necessarily RCA, 3.5mm trs can work just as well.
But I personally found the route via BlueTooth had advantages.
When you connect it as a USB audio device, then it is exactly that: a USB audio device.
If your tablet has USB ports and works with class-compliant USB audio devices, then that could work. Not necessarily RCA, 3.5mm trs can work just as well.
But I personally found the route via BlueTooth had advantages.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
From all the reading that I have done Bluetooth does not have lossless capability.
All my headphones are of the wired type. I have no plan's to buy any type of headphones.
When the audio gets to the receiver I will listen to the music through the speakers or headphones.
Getting my music streaming set up has been an education. It has been very time consuming and as yet still not 100% decided on the direction to go. I am having a hell of a time to find if an Android tablet has lossless audio through the headphone jack. This is not stated in the product literature.
I will spend some time checking for noise in my current temporary/test setup.
All my headphones are of the wired type. I have no plan's to buy any type of headphones.
When the audio gets to the receiver I will listen to the music through the speakers or headphones.
Getting my music streaming set up has been an education. It has been very time consuming and as yet still not 100% decided on the direction to go. I am having a hell of a time to find if an Android tablet has lossless audio through the headphone jack. This is not stated in the product literature.
I will spend some time checking for noise in my current temporary/test setup.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
- KVRAF
- 15279 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
True that...Kalamata Kid wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:53 am From all the reading that I have done Bluetooth does not have lossless capability.
Do you watch TV or DVD, ever go to a cinema or listen to FM/DAB+ radio? How do you find the audio quality?
Every bloody thing you hear nowadays in public has been lossless encoded at some stage of the travel. It's just not 64kbps mp3 anymore but 512kbps aac.
It's analog. Analog is not lossless/ lossy. Only digital is that.Kalamata Kid wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:53 am I am having a hell of a time to find if an Android tablet has lossless audio through the headphone jack. This is not stated in the product literature.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
The way understand it, the internal DAC in a tablet may or may not have lossless capability prior to the conversion to analog. As stated in the earlier post here a few iPads do have lossless prior to the conversion to analog. Would be great if I found which Android tablets have the same processing.
My car and bedroom listening is all from CD's, mostly classical. The quality here varies depending on how they were recorded. A few years back I did an A/B test. Found it difficult to always pick the correct one. But when listening over time, the CD quality audio over compressed audio was more enjoyable to listen to. I gave up the X-M radio and went back to listening to CD's.
My car and bedroom listening is all from CD's, mostly classical. The quality here varies depending on how they were recorded. A few years back I did an A/B test. Found it difficult to always pick the correct one. But when listening over time, the CD quality audio over compressed audio was more enjoyable to listen to. I gave up the X-M radio and went back to listening to CD's.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
- KVRAF
- 15279 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
So?? If not, then the cpu of the tablet will decode. You won't ever get scrambled audio.Kalamata Kid wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 7:40 am The way understand it, the internal DAC in a tablet may or may not have lossless capability prior to the conversion to analog.
Afaic it's a black box: it just works.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
Checked out my current temporary audio streaming set up and did not notice any noise.
I have tinnitus so it could be there but just can't hear it.
I have tinnitus so it could be there but just can't hear it.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
For the last 25 years or so at home and in the car I have been listening to music only from CD's. Mostly happy with the audio quality.
Signed up for the free three month demo of the Spotify music app. Seems ok. I will later try Apple Music to compare.
Got tired of research on which tablet to get so visited the local BestBuy and in the process ended up purchasing the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 lite. My first impression was not good. The audio sound a bit thin.
Looks like I will have to add an external USB DAC as stated in an earlier post
Signed up for the free three month demo of the Spotify music app. Seems ok. I will later try Apple Music to compare.
Got tired of research on which tablet to get so visited the local BestBuy and in the process ended up purchasing the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 lite. My first impression was not good. The audio sound a bit thin.
Looks like I will have to add an external USB DAC as stated in an earlier post
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146
- KVRAF
- 15279 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
If you really wanna know what's going on, then go measure it.
I suggest you do the same, it's addictive
- Get this tool: https://audio.rightmark.org/products/rmaa.shtml
- Play around with it, measure your own audio interface in loopback for instance
- Export WAV test tones on your PC, transfer these to your tablet
- Connect audio out of the table to line in of your best audio interface on the PC
- Play the WAV test tones on the tablet, while RMAA analyses it
I suggest you do the same, it's addictive
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5811 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
BertKoor, thanks for taking the time to respond with what seems to me are good suggestions.
I have already spent way too much time on the project so I will likely not do any of them.
I will listen to the tablet for a few days to see if I feel the same about the audio quality.
The audio quality from the iPad Air gen 1, seems better then the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 lite tablet.
Yes I could be wrong about my first impression about the audio quality. I will give it a few days.
I played Beethoven's seventh a piece I am familiar with and it did not move me at all.
Yes it could be that it was a bad recording or the orchestra or the conductor was bad.
I have already spent way too much time on the project so I will likely not do any of them.
I will listen to the tablet for a few days to see if I feel the same about the audio quality.
The audio quality from the iPad Air gen 1, seems better then the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 lite tablet.
Yes I could be wrong about my first impression about the audio quality. I will give it a few days.
I played Beethoven's seventh a piece I am familiar with and it did not move me at all.
Yes it could be that it was a bad recording or the orchestra or the conductor was bad.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146