Hello there,
I always asked myself this. Sometimes I am writing some chords and stuff and I always write whatever sounds good to me, and sometimes it does sound good with a chord that doesn't belong to the scale I am working on. Is this a good practice in music? How can I avoid this?
Luciano
Does the scale really matter?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 30 Jun, 2023
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- KVRAF
- 15279 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
If it sounds good, it is good.
Rules? Are meant to be broken to get beyond the boring stuff.
Just remember this hard rule: no Buy&Sell with less than 5 posts
Rules? Are meant to be broken to get beyond the boring stuff.
Just remember this hard rule: no Buy&Sell with less than 5 posts
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 5512 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Two possibilities.
a) Maybe you’re not in the key you think you’re in.
b) You are using a “borrowed chord.” This is extremely common and occurs in many of the best known songs ever written. (See: The Beatles)
a) Maybe you’re not in the key you think you’re in.
b) You are using a “borrowed chord.” This is extremely common and occurs in many of the best known songs ever written. (See: The Beatles)
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Look, there is no answer that's good for all things to a question like "Is this a good practice in music?"
If all music is made according to one, correct practice for every question this would be a seriously dead field of endeavor wouldn't it.
There doesn't have to be any technical answer at all.
Here are two perfectly cromulent answers, of course, given a musical context.
The real point of the post was detected by Bert, though. They've got their 5 posts.
If all music is made according to one, correct practice for every question this would be a seriously dead field of endeavor wouldn't it.
There doesn't have to be any technical answer at all.
Here are two perfectly cromulent answers, of course, given a musical context.
The real point of the post was detected by Bert, though. They've got their 5 posts.
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- KVRAF
- 3390 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia
A Scale is whatever you define it to be.
If you want all 12 tones it has a name ("Nasty" I believe).
Common Scales are helpful when working with others as you can simply call "E min Dorian with a hep-twist of the Diminished Augment of the 75th sub-Dominant" and everyone is on the same page so the harmonies are blissful.
When composing you can make the Structure of the piece whatever you want, and will work for the intended audience. If that happens to be 34/24 in C Flat major Mixamatisis using 3 bar patterns, that is perfectly fine. If you don't understand your structure, it is likely that you will have issues you can't work out a fix for seeing you don't know the rules of your piece.
If you want all 12 tones it has a name ("Nasty" I believe).
Common Scales are helpful when working with others as you can simply call "E min Dorian with a hep-twist of the Diminished Augment of the 75th sub-Dominant" and everyone is on the same page so the harmonies are blissful.
When composing you can make the Structure of the piece whatever you want, and will work for the intended audience. If that happens to be 34/24 in C Flat major Mixamatisis using 3 bar patterns, that is perfectly fine. If you don't understand your structure, it is likely that you will have issues you can't work out a fix for seeing you don't know the rules of your piece.
Benedict Roff-Marsh
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
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- KVRAF
- 3390 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia
Benedict wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:52 am A Scale is whatever you define it to be.
If you want all 12 tones it has a name ("Nasty" I believe).
Common Scales are helpful when working with others as you can simply call "E min Dorian with a hep-twist of the Diminished Augment of the 75th sub-Dominant" and everyone is on the same page so the harmonies are blissful.
When composing you can make the Structure of the piece whatever you want, and will work for the intended audience. If that happens to be 34/24 in C Flat major Myxomatosis using 3 bar patterns, that is perfectly fine. If you don't understand your structure, it is likely that you will have issues you can't work out a fix for seeing you don't know the rules of your piece.
Benedict Roff-Marsh
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
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- KVRian
- 659 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
The scale mostly matters. As only some chords not belonging to a key sometimes sound good.
The key creates many very important musical effects. Stability and instability (that is (in)completeness of a piece of music), modulations, alterations, etc. Yes, it's a sort of a rule but this is a rule we can and may break. Even more, we can sensibly and efficiently break this rule and get meaningful results only because this rule exists.
You shouldn't avoid this, it's a common place, a common practice.
It you work (for example) in twelve tone technique it doesn't matter. But there are some other restrictions in this technique.
The key creates many very important musical effects. Stability and instability (that is (in)completeness of a piece of music), modulations, alterations, etc. Yes, it's a sort of a rule but this is a rule we can and may break. Even more, we can sensibly and efficiently break this rule and get meaningful results only because this rule exists.
You shouldn't avoid this, it's a common place, a common practice.
It you work (for example) in twelve tone technique it doesn't matter. But there are some other restrictions in this technique.
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- KVRAF
- 8499 posts since 5 Aug, 2009
i once analyzed some tracks from myself and checked the scales and then i had at one part a tone which was SCALEwise out of tune but it somehow gave the track a wicked small break, and i think this makes it special and might get listeners attention. i also listened to some music randomly where i was like WTF this is so random and out of tune and i couldnt continue listening and i just dont remember the song or name of the project but it had also a decent number of followers i think.
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- KVRAF
- 10621 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Somewhere near the Morgul Vale.
I personally prefer Dm, the saddest of all keys.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-Martin Luther King Jr.
-Martin Luther King Jr.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
to Caine: that's not what "out of tune" means. Hon, either you're going to go all in with 'music theory' or you aren't; at this stage don't worry about it. Also you can't base any of this on popularity.
As jamcat provided, a lot of things in this world do not fit a single scale throughout the song {just as a lot of musics don't involve at all with that kind of 'music theory'}.
Neither Lennon nor McCartney was worried about that, believe me. Yes we can find teh borrowed chords and what-not but not everyone followed the book or particularly needed to.
As jamcat provided, a lot of things in this world do not fit a single scale throughout the song {just as a lot of musics don't involve at all with that kind of 'music theory'}.
Neither Lennon nor McCartney was worried about that, believe me. Yes we can find teh borrowed chords and what-not but not everyone followed the book or particularly needed to.
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 18 Sep, 2023
Look at a Bach score.
All sharps or flats on it mean these notes are not in the key. It is because Bach uses chords that are not in the key of the piece.
So is it a good practice ? Yes. Should you do it ? Yes. Should you make songs that don't use "out of scale" chords ? In my humble opinion... No. It is boring and that is why you find this type of chords so early in music. It was already considered boring to only play in tune in renaissance. We are not cistercian monks.
If you want to learn a bit about how and why it sounds good, check "borrowed chords", "chromatic mediants" etc.
All sharps or flats on it mean these notes are not in the key. It is because Bach uses chords that are not in the key of the piece.
So is it a good practice ? Yes. Should you do it ? Yes. Should you make songs that don't use "out of scale" chords ? In my humble opinion... No. It is boring and that is why you find this type of chords so early in music. It was already considered boring to only play in tune in renaissance. We are not cistercian monks.
If you want to learn a bit about how and why it sounds good, check "borrowed chords", "chromatic mediants" etc.
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- KVRist
- 489 posts since 24 Nov, 2008
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 8 Jul, 2023
scales are a very good foundation ... or tools for you to use ... when u run out of ideas ...
it is good to know your scale ... it does no harm to you at all
it is good to know your scale ... it does no harm to you at all
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- KVRAF
- 2565 posts since 2 Jul, 2010
Indeed! Here's a pre-1600 masterpiece where the "accidentals" start appearing on the second bar...le_merou wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:26 am Should you make songs that don't use "out of scale" chords ? In my humble opinion... No. It is boring and that is why you find this type of chords so early in music. It was already considered boring to only play in tune in renaissance. We are not cistercian monks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5pW0awAb-U
