New Cakewalk Next and Sonar

[Jim Roseberry]

I'm not crazy about paying for Backstage Pass and a subscription or fee.
I'm assuming it'll be one or the other (not both).

[rocksmoot]

Yeah they've been dancing around with verbiage about pricing. You can blame Cakewalk all you want, but it's clear to me that the decisions like that are made by BandLab and I don't think they really know what they want to do yet. The problems arise because I don't believe anyone from BandLab itself is actually posting on that forum.

[l33t4e]

They are taking way too long, so in order to save face, they are releasing a public beta (although they like calling it "early access" LOL), but you have to pay for it if you want to save and stop the nag screens. How do you pay? You subscribe to BandLab Membership which is a separate thing all together and not new at all. It's their music distribution and promotion service. The only thing new about BandLab Membership is that they added the feature called Backstage Pass which gives access to beta test Next and Sonar and whatever they release as public beta.

I don't like how BandLab is going about this and find it disingenuous. Because the way they portray how to gain access to their DAWs and the lack of clarity of what it is and is not. It makes stupid people and people that are lazy and ignore obvious reading and research to think that this is the new subscription service and that is how you are going to access Sonar going forward. It gives them the illusion that Sonar is officially released and ready to use or make them think this is a subscription pre-order. While at the same time avoiding angering people that want a perpetual license and hate subscriptions, because they can easily say that it's still in development and this is the only way to access it for now (which the developers actually did say on their forums).

Keep in mind that the product is still in development. It has not been officially released or had any pricing or marketing done, and that this isn't a 2.0 release but a brand new IP all together. Nothing has changed with the BandLab Membership except for the fact that they added that feature and waited for word-of-mouth on the forum that people found out you can download the software at the footer of the page of the Cakewalk site and let the program lead them to their paid services which include access to the DAW.

The fact that their DAWs are still in development (including their pricing structure and marketing and many other things), and that their paid service only states it allows access to software in development. It doesn't take more then 2 brain cells to figure out that this isn't their DAW subscription service and that they will cease giving access to their software that is in development when it is released. So people will have to pay using the pricing structure that they create for it instead. So people that pay for an annual BandLab Membership subscription solely for getting access to Sonar may get a rude awakening if they release it in 6 months for example and they have to pay again to use it.

Sure, BandLab may decide "since we intentionally or unintentionally duped people to subscribing to us, we will change our membership into how you will subscribe to use our DAW's going forward" and that is how the people that subscribed will be happy and BandLab can say how their DAW subscription service includes two DAWs and their music distribution service, as well as say how that it is a "great value". Then they can say pay $400 to get a perpetual license for only Sonar which also only includes updates for version 1 and nothing extra.

So with that all in mind. I'll just keep using the still FREE Cakewalk by BandLab until they deactivate the free DAW and I have to pay for Sonar. Then we shall see where I go from there.

[rocksmoot]

I would too but some stuuf in Sonar is growing on me so I picked up the membership trusting that it will not play out to be a big mistake. I have a good track record for things like this, what with being a Sonar Lifetime license holder and all.

[Examigan]

I have used Sonar since version 4, but won't pay for a subscription. I'd rather just pay however much they will charge to upgrade.

[jinotsuh]

I'm not crazy about paying for Backstage Pass and a subscription or fee.
I'm assuming it'll be one or the other (not both).

Yes, to be honest, I'm not sure what's going on, it's spinning my head around what you read and what you see, not a big Cakewalk/Sonar fan, but I was going to perhaps give this a try, but it all just seems a little messed up. I might just wait for the real release and se what things are like then.

It is still possible of perpetual licenses being offered, if so that is what I would prefer. Wait and see how the Cake cooks.

[Trensharo]

Taking too long.

No feature updates. Just a HiDPI update and some bug fixes, which is expected from any product.

I really wonder what they're going to try to sell this for.

Some legacy Cakewalk Plugins and Virtual Instruments aren't really worth much of anything in 2024.

[Resonant- Serpent]

Noel posted on the forum: "Nothing will change that will break compatibility. Both sonar and next are not beta software. Backstage pass has more to do with the delivery of the software than the software itself."

From their earlier comments I had assumed that the current Sonar release was a beta. If not a beta, it's the softest launch I've ever seen for a piece of software.

[Kalamata Kid]

I emailed Bandlab about the upcoming Sonar; I was wondering if those of us who bought a lifetime license back when Gibson owned it would get the new Sonar free or at a discount. They weren't sure as of the response a few weeks ago. I guess we'll see.

I bought the Lifetime Sonar Platinum license on August 2016.
Would be great if they will honor the lifetime license.
We with the Sonar Lifetime license after all one of the most if not the most faithful Sonar users.

[l33t4e]

Noel posted on the forum: "Nothing will change that will break compatibility. Both sonar and next are not beta software. Backstage pass has more to do with the delivery of the software than the software itself."

From their earlier comments I had assumed that the current Sonar release was a beta. If not a beta, it's the softest launch I've ever seen for a piece of software.


 

He also said: "It's not a beta - it has been in ongoing internal beta for over a year. The feature set is complete now and the app is completely usable hence it's being offered for early access as part of the bandlab membership which is not free." here: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/
and: "If you want to start using Sonar right away, backstage pass (which includes both Sonar, Next as well as other bandlab perks) is the only available option right now. There are plans for other purchase options but there isn't a known timeline just yet.

Today you can get it monthly or get an annual BSP license upfront which is cheaper." here: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/

Key takeaways from this; He said it is "Early Access" which seems similar to this: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php? ... s-program/ [read the top of page] which is really post-beta since they only ever beta test internally and not publicly, then run it through the public then release when people don't complain about bugs, otherwise make a fix before officially releasing the patch and have it go to the main update channels. So the only difference here being no dedicated forum to discuss things and very lax, which I find weird, proof by what this other developer says here: "We'll have some more formalized places to discuss Sonar coming, but for now you can continue to post about it here. 
Also note there is "Report a Problem" link in the Help menu." -link: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/. 

So they are being very very vague here! If you never read the website and only the forum, you would think this is a very soft and unprofessional product launch starting with a subscription service. Some people on the forum even think they are the lucky ones that are getting this before anyone else in the general public because some spoke of it there (note that it was never someone official that spoke of it there). But if you read the website Cakewalk.com you would think that you are getting some pre-release version.

What makes me very critical and wary about all this is that the developers are not being clear about anything. Granted they did say that the handling of pricing and distribution is not in their control but BandLab themselves, so it may be that the company are leaving the developers in the dark or under NDA and in turn the developers are leaving us in the dark as they try to just "wing it" with everything. Sort of like "just subscribe here to gain access to our software that we tested and think that maybe is ready but are not sure what to do next.... we'll see what happens". This is more ambiguous than when they made legacy Sonar free and called it Cakewalk by BandLab. 

Once they officially release this, they better get their crap in order and be 100% clear about everything like every other major company out there with every fine detail and all the legalese ironed out. Otherwise I wont be doing business with them and switch to a different DAW.

[Jim Roseberry]

I don't know much about the infrastructure of BandLab, but I know Noel (built two of his machines) and Morten Saether (long time Product Manager). Both sharp folks with a passion for what they do... and they've been around for decades.

If there's ambiguity, I'd say that's more likely from the corporate end.

Long-term, it's important for BandLab to monetize Sonar... and release it as a legit professional DAW.
That way, it's taken seriously by the rest of the industry (tested for compatibility, etc).

UI, stability, and support have to be top priorities.
Not the most exciting "features", but get the fundamentals solid... and you have the foundation for a great DAW.

[l33t4e]

I don't know much about the infrastructure of BandLab, but I know Noel (built two of his machines) and Morten Saether (long time Product Manager). Both sharp folks with a passion for what they do... and they've been around for decades.

If there's ambiguity, I'd say that's more likely from the corporate end.

Long-term, it's important for BandLab to monetize Sonar... and release it as a legit professional DAW.
That way, it's taken seriously by the rest of the industry (tested for compatibility, etc).

UI, stability, and support have to be top priorities.
Not the most exciting "features", but get the fundamentals solid... and you have the foundation for a great DAW.

Yeah, most likely it's BandLab that is being ambiguous. We have never heard anything directly from them. So all the heat is going towards the developers which have no say in the matter and at the same time shouldn't make the company look bad. So I feel bad for them because they now get the blame. All the developers including the ones you mentioned have been professional and helpful on the forum before all this Sonar stuff. I guess it's just the stress coming from BandLab and keeping them in the dark that's the problem.

Now I feel bad if it looked like I was being harsh on them as if they were to blame when it should be BandLab instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jim Roseberry]

Now I feel bad if it looked like I was being harsh on them as if they were to blame when it should be BandLab instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't get that vibe.
I'm sure Noel, Morten, etc know what they're getting into.
Here's hoping the corporate/marketing side clarifies some of the ambiguity.

[chk071]

Long-term, it's important for BandLab to monetize Sonar... and release it as a legit professional DAW.
That way, it's taken seriously by the rest of the industry (tested for compatibility, etc).

I found that the problem with Cakewalk by Bandlab is a different one: It just felt antiquated in some regards, lacked good content, and I never had the impression that the pace of development is on par with other DAWs. It would be great if that could change with a change of business and pricing model.

Not looking for a new DAW or something, it's just something I always noticed when I tried Cakewalk by Bandlab.

[jens]

Slip-editing aside, Sonar had for a long time most of the stuff that most other DAWs lack.