Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[pdxindy]

I have to say, as an owner of the AAS suite, they no longer sound as good as they should. The plugins are resource hogs of the worst kind, especially the new dual-engine incarnations, so I avoid using them. I hope the Live versions are more well-behaved for y'all.

I could get better sounds out of Tassman. I wish they'd just update Tassman...

I had such high hopes for Tassman years ago. Really a shame they let it die. I assumed they lost their DSP coder and that is why the company has not touched the DSP in years and just added window dressing.

These days, Chromaphone sounds dull and band limited compared to other offerings.

[syntonica]

I have to say, as an owner of the AAS suite, they no longer sound as good as they should. The plugins are resource hogs of the worst kind, especially the new dual-engine incarnations, so I avoid using them. I hope the Live versions are more well-behaved for y'all.

I could get better sounds out of Tassman. I wish they'd just update Tassman...

I had such high hopes for Tassman years ago. Really a shame they let it die. I assumed they lost their DSP coder and that is why the company has not touched the DSP in years and just added window dressing.

These days, Chromaphone sounds dull and band limited compared to other offerings.

I think a) the big Tassman dev left at some point, or their brain just exploded from too much brilliance; b) Tassman is deeply bound to Intel 32-bit. When we finally got the 64-bit update for Mac, it was a bridge for the 32-but version.

I still like CPhone, but I use the older version as it was updated for Mac M1 and uses half the resources compared to the latest version, although still far too much. In general, physical modeling tends to be dull and lifeless sounding. It sorely needs an exciter phase to add in some life. It also tends to be limited on range, which I consider a plus as overly low and high pitches can create some very unusual and interesting musical sounds. That why I keep these plugins around.

[SLiC]

I have to say, as an owner of the AAS suite, they no longer sound as good as they should. The plugins are resource hogs of the worst kind, especially the new dual-engine incarnations, so I avoid using them. I hope the Live versions are more well-behaved for y'all.

I could get better sounds out of Tassman. I wish they'd just update Tassman...

I prefer the Live rack versions (it’s a rack thing!) and can’t think of any other MPE ‘rack’ instruments (not VSTs) that are better for VM…the fact that they run standalone in PUSH also makes them great portable hardware synths, you can’t knock them as a standalone groove box/drum machine voice!

[pdxindy]

I still like CPhone, but I use the older version as it was updated for Mac M1 and uses half the resources compared to the latest version, although still far too much. In general, physical modeling tends to be dull and lifeless sounding. It sorely needs an exciter phase to add in some life. It also tends to be limited on range, which I consider a plus as overly low and high pitches can create some very unusual and interesting musical sounds. That why I keep these plugins around.

I made the mistake of updating to the latest.

Wait till you try Zebralette 3 for organic percussion sounds. The sound is so sharp and dynamic it is startling!

[syntonica]

I made the mistake of updating to the latest.

I was able to still download the older versions of Chromaphone and Ultra Analog. They don't sound better, of course, but I find them more usable. I think you have to select then separately and not get the combined updater.

[perpetual3]

I can’t wait.

I still like CPhone, but I use the older version as it was updated for Mac M1 and uses half the resources compared to the latest version, although still far too much. In general, physical modeling tends to be dull and lifeless sounding. It sorely needs an exciter phase to add in some life. It also tends to be limited on range, which I consider a plus as overly low and high pitches can create some very unusual and interesting musical sounds. That why I keep these plugins around.

I made the mistake of updating to the latest.

Wait till you try Zebralette 3 for organic percussion sounds. The sound is so sharp and dynamic it is startling!

[xbitz]

breaking ... nah, so just a quick note, the design started to work for me here, I don't know how to capture it but it turned out nice, however, everything else did not



mac, m1

Falcon is barely visible, but still yes, anyway ... no pain no gain

[ckoe]

I'm back to Bitwig and have sold my Ableton 12. Bitwig performs a lot better on Windows with WASAPI, is more stable and the Bitwig Modulators + The Grid are so much better than all Ableton has to offer. And with the CLAP plugin format there no need to to dance to someone’s VST tune.

[3ptguitarist]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

I've been briefly trying Bitwig trial and I'm not seeing why it's better for me. I'm used to Ableton's workflow and it has worked fine for me, but is there anything in Bitwig that could help improve production workflow?

[Stan Navi]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

I've been briefly trying Bitwig trial and I'm not seeing why it's better for me. I'm used to Ableton's workflow and it has worked fine for me, but is there anything in Bitwig that could help improve production workflow?

For me it is:
- Plugin sandboxing
- 3d party midi plugins/VST Synths with midi out - on the same track with instrument
- hide disabled tracks
- focus grouped tracks (only certain group can be visible)
- bounce in place
- ability to save and recall VST instrument+FX preset without saving rack (in ableton it only racks)
- ability to save grouped tracks with all presets/settings/routings in one clip (here i'm not shure, maybe current ableton version have this)

[perpetual3]

Multiple projects open, drag and drop devices, tracks, groups, clips, arrangement between projects.

[Yorrrrrr]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

I've been briefly trying Bitwig trial and I'm not seeing why it's better for me. I'm used to Ableton's workflow and it has worked fine for me, but is there anything in Bitwig that could help improve production workflow?

It's not better per se. Just comes a different set of tools for slightly different use case. I got tired of trying Bitwig multiple times, I always came back home to Ableton. Because I don't care about crazy modulation, The Grid stuff and the features it has over Ableton, don't like the dark, saturated and bloated GUI, and other reasons. I really don't need any of them, maybe you don't care either. Just stick to Ableton, it's a more consistent and established tool, and already amazing workflow wise.

[SLiC]

That question runs the risk of just lists of what Bitwig has and Live doesn't and then visa versa. It is highly likely if you try both one will suit you better- one will just 'click' with you...its not so much about the details (they change constantly...currently Live has better midi editing but that could change with the next Bigwig release) but its the overall look and feel (and how you feel) when using it...

Personally I think Suite is an amazing collection of instruments, fx and sound packs- that alone is worth the cost to me. Bitwig is far more 'roll your own' and that will appeal to others who like to work in the nuts and bolts... they are different, so I own both

[pdxindy]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

I've been briefly trying Bitwig trial and I'm not seeing why it's better for me. I'm used to Ableton's workflow and it has worked fine for me, but is there anything in Bitwig that could help improve production workflow?

Nobody could answer that question for you except you. Every DAW is impressive these days.

For my uses, Live requires more VST plugins. All the Live Suite instruments are pretty basic when it comes to modulation. For example, none of the Live instruments have an MSEG. They don't include a more open-ended and flexible synth.

When I switched to Bitwig, I ended up using the Bitwig instruments a lot more than I had Live instruments. I could be pretty happy using just Bitwig instruments.

You say "besides the modular features" but Bitwig is fundamentally modular. Most devices and tools in Bitwig are more powerful and capable because they are part of a modular structure.

The Grid is an exceptional tool. From simple things like using the Note Grid to convert incoming CC2 data into CC1 to making complex MPE instruments. Poly Grid is the best MPE synth available today.

The modular aspects of Bitwig have a thousand different uses.

[pdxindy]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

I've been briefly trying Bitwig trial and I'm not seeing why it's better for me. I'm used to Ableton's workflow and it has worked fine for me, but is there anything in Bitwig that could help improve production workflow?

Some things I prefer in Bitwig:
1- I can edit audio clips directly in the Clip Launcher. (In Live, one has to drag the clip to Arrange, edit it, consolidate, and drag in back to the Session View.)
2- Having the Clip Launcher and Arrange side by side and oriented the same. It's a big advantage when working with both together.
3- Bounce in Place
4- Bounce in Place also works for Groups. I can have a group of midi tracks and Bounce in Place to the Group Master, then disable the sub-tracks or specific clips.
5- Multiple projects open at once. I use this constantly.
6- CLAP plugin format. One of the best features ever!