KVR Audio

audiouser720 · Post by **audiouser720** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:01 pm

Please talk me in our out of one if these.

Long story long, I use Pro Tools as a 'tape recorder' and everything always ends up in Pro Tools and that won't change. I however like to use different software for sketching ideas. I basically have everything from Cubase to Ableton to Logic to whatever. I have Ableton Lite which has been perfectly enough for what I need it for and have been using it as a sort of notebook for quick ideas. I record a lot of HW synths and so seamless integration is key. I have recently demoed Bitwig again (did it a couple of years ago and left it there) and my first impression was that it wasn't as intuitive and fast as Live (for creating melodies, putting BEATSSSS together etc), however, there is something about it that makes it very appealing. First of all the way I can integrate hardware and modulate it is absolutely amazing. I hate to say this, and 100% placebo, but it sounds better? I read opinions before stating that Bitwig is much 'tighter' than Live, especially with HW, and this has been my impression too, so this can kinda make it sound 'better' in a way. Live is quite laggy when sending midi out to external hardware, to me at least. But boy I love the new midi features in the new Live version. So muuuuch faster than Betwig. Also the interface of Ableton looks cleaner. There is, however, something inviting about Bitweg.

Anyway, I want to buy into one of these babies as there are good sales going on both sides atm. My fingers are burning to press BUY NOW. Don't expect people to decide on behalf of me. Just to wash my brain and influence me. Betweg or Abelton that is the question

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:10 pm

Thank God someone had finally asked this question on a forum. Finally we’ll settle this debate once and for all.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:13 pm

Ablewig

audiouser720 · Post by **audiouser720** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:14 pm

revvy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:10 pm Thank God someone had finally asked this question on a forum. Finally we’ll settle this debate once and for all.

Really? Never before? Such a privilege to be first.

Hope I make it to the history books of forums

0degree · Post by **0degree** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:19 pm

I had a couple of switches between Ableton and Bitwig and I eventually settled on Bitwig. For me DAW has to have the following requirements:
- readable user interface
- custom plugin script api
- has to have clip launcher

For me Ableton's flat user interface is just so horrible I couldn't really stand it. It's like working with excel but even worse and less readable. Ableton has better onboard devices but Bitwig has insane modulation capabilities and Bitwig's Grid is far more usable than Max4Live which was always clunky, slow and unstable for me.

llze · Post by **llze** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:26 pm

I came from Cubase 4-8 and Bitwig was the natural choice since version one for me, as it also has it's inspector on the left anda clear arrangement view. I wanted the dual workflow, being able to use clips and session view at the same time. Bitwig and Cubase also (subjectively) sound better to me. I love the layered editing in Bitwig and also bounce in place and sandbox mode. The whole modulation system integrated is simply superior to a buggy -crash prone max4life- approach imo. Also now with MSEGS and Spectral plugins, lot's of new ground is still to be discovered deep inside, not even mentioning the Grid. Modulation at audio rate has it's benefits too.

Not sure what midi features in Ableton made it in recently, but the development pace of new features in Bitwig appears to me much faster. Also I personally don't like the arrangement view in Ableton, it looks messy to me. While I could see color improvements in Bitwig too with personal themes. I gave Ableton a chance in version 7/8 and 10 again, but it didn't flow for me eventually. Although I miss one or two plugins, like grain delay and beat repeat, but I can substitute that with other things. For me Bitwig is the best out there for sound design, experimental and electronic music. Although I don't know if I would miss something for recording. Editing and mixing is also fine for my requirements. Only thing that bugs me, is that there is no multichannel bus, which Ableton recently (with the help of max) became capabil of. So for spatial experiments, Ableton currently has an advantage, whichI really hope will vanish not too far away.

Bitwig guys, you hear us? Open yourself for Game sound design and multichannel..

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:29 pm

Between the enormus amount of tutorials, videos, super fast workflow, built in great effects and instruments, content, company strength and bright future (you can see what's happening as v12 is unfolding and 13... etc) AND the infinite possibilities of M4L and the already available devices (free and paid), and how Ableton is opening up the piano roll to M4L...

"As a whole", the creative environment in Ableton is really, IMO, the best; bar none.

RugerioDelStereo · Post by **RugerioDelStereo** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:51 pm

Download both trials, try them for a month and make decision.

Then go and look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Why? Why did I have to make another boring useless thread on KVR for this?".

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:58 pm

About the sound, no they don't impart a sound on any recorded audio unless you start warping.

As for using hardware, the new MIDI Control CC device in live is going to make that faster.

audiouser720 · Post by **audiouser720** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:13 am

RugerioDelStereo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:51 pm Download both trials, try them for a month and make decision.

Then go and look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Why? Why did I have to make another boring useless thread on KVR for this?".

Don't agree. You can never have enough VS threads just like you can never have enough reverb threads. This thread is exciting. Boring is good too, I like boring.

Thanks for the tip btw, but if you read my OP you can se I don't need to download trials. Sorry, but failed your KVR test too. Didn't give me the correct answer. Just so you know next time, the correct answer is that I have to buy both. Press buy now twice

audiouser720 · Post by **audiouser720** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:14 am

rod_zero wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:58 pm About the sound, no they don't impart a sound on any recorded audio unless you start warping.

As for using hardware, the new MIDI Control CC device in live is going to make that faster.

Yes, they absolutely don't affect the sound. I was referring to midi, not audio. Midi seems tighter in Bitwig. I do indeed like the new midi control device though in Live.

pekbro · Post by **pekbro** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:31 am

Both is pretty much the way to go imo, tho if I had to choose one only, it would be live.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:13 am

Ableton Live 12 Suite is the way to go. Recently I added Reason Rack Plugin to it and couldn't be happier with this combo. Bitwig offers some nice things (such as The Grid and the whole modulation thing), but as a complete package it's no Ableton, sorry. Not even close. And even less now with the upcoming 12.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:17 am

Yorrrrrr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:13 am Ableton Live 12 Suite is the way to go. Recently I added Reason Rack Plugin to it and couldn't be happier with this combo. Bitwig offers some nice things, but it's no Ableton, sorry. Not even close.

Very true. Bitwig is nowhere near as limiting as Ableton.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:19 am

liquidsound wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:13 pm Ablewig

Ablewig is crap. Bitleton forever.

Actually nether is as good as Maschitwig (Maschine in Bitwig)

Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1