Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[pdxindy]

My opinion, MPE support matters more than new features without MPE, especially for physical modeling.

And of course you are welcome to that opinion, but I was not talking about features but core sound quality. If I'm not satisfied with the fundamental sound quality of a synth, it having MPE doesn't fix that for me.

Some developers really do themselves a disservice, Madrona Labs do not seem to state anywhere on their site or in their manual, that Kaivo supports MPE.

Kaivo does support MPE and the sound quality is exceptional. It has lovely organic and acoustic sounding tones. It also pitch slides in a natural way which some MPE synths don't do well.

Plus, I don't agree that because something is older it's not as good

I didn't say because something is older it's not as good as a general statement. I said specifically other modeling synths have a more natural/acoustic/dynamic tone than the AAS synths. The AAS synths have too many unnatural cues and a general static-ness that I find unsatisfying.

I agree that a modeling synth doesn't need to perfectly model a specific instrument, but what matters to me (and it may not matter to you) is that it creates sounds that could be an acoustic instrument. In other words, that they sound natural and dynamic enough that the listener is not sure.

Anyone who has read my posts knows I'm an enthusiastic advocate of MPE. I have a Linnstrument, Osmose, Continuum and ERAE Touch. Still, if I have to choose between sound and MPE, I choose sound cause I can use multiple instances of a synth and make it MPE, but I cannot make the sound satisfying.

[Razzia]

wrong thread

[machinesworking]

My opinion, MPE support matters more than new features without MPE, especially for physical modeling.

And of course you are welcome to that opinion, but I was not talking about features but core sound quality. If I'm not satisfied with the fundamental sound quality of a synth, it having MPE doesn't fix that for me.

Personally I find that a simpler synth sounds better when played with an MPE controller. It's hard to defend AAS, I think they really screwed up the interface with their last upgrade, doubling the engines is not innovation etc. I do think that Tension an the other Live versions get a huge boost from MPE though.

Look, this is a rabbit hole. It's like the argument of what VST sounds the most analog, it's never ending, but I will die on the hill that you pretty much need MPE support in 2024 if you're going to be developing a physical modeling synth. I don't get why anyone in their right mind would ignore the obvious pairing. It's why I was somewhat disappointed I missed the intro sale on Objekt, but I passed because I didn't see the point in the end.

[liquidsound]

I passed because I didn't see the point in the end.

There IS no end

[pdxindy]

Personally I find that a simpler synth sounds better when played with an MPE controller.

Uh huh... time to put an end to this nonsense. Please post something this expressive played realtime with your MPE AAS synth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag0wsDFaFGE

[machinesworking]

Personally I find that a simpler synth sounds better when played with an MPE controller.

Uh huh... time to put an end to this nonsense. Please post something this expressive played realtime with your MPE AAS synth.

Sometimes you confuse me, because you can act like an adult for days on end then start in on dick wagging out of the blue.

The best part, I can guarantee that in the past you claimed you weren't interested in X VST because it wasn't MPE, yet here you are just wasting time acting a fool about something as simple as Live having a built in MPE capable physical modeling synth. No one ever said it was "the best" or you should love it, just that MPE is important to me when thinking about buying a physical modeling synth, period. It all stinks of partisan nonsense and I'm done.

[Jac459]

I am late to the discussion and everybody is already fed-up at everybody but I actually feel everybody is right.
Objekt is an absolute beast. Maybe the serum of wavetables or the diva of analog emulation.
But clearly it would be also better with mpe and mpe does makes full sense for physical modelling to fully reproduce expressivity.

I sincerely hope R13 will bring mpe support.

[pdxindy]

Sometimes you confuse me, because you can act like an adult for days on end then start in on dick wagging out of the blue.

The best part, I can guarantee that in the past you claimed you weren't interested in X VST because it wasn't MPE, yet here you are just wasting time acting a fool about something as simple as Live having a built in MPE capable physical modeling synth. No one ever said it was "the best" or you should love it, just that MPE is important to me when thinking about buying a physical modeling synth, period. It all stinks of partisan nonsense and I'm done.

You're done cause that video blew away your argument and you are unwilling to admit it that it is freakin impressive... and so you started in on the name calling.

You're right, there are plenty of synths I haven't been interested in cause they weren't MPE. Doesn't mean I can't recognize something new that is heads above the other options. That has nothing to do with Live or Bitwig. I have the AAS synths myself as regular plugins. Objekt is way better.

[pdxindy]

I am late to the discussion and everybody is already fed-up at everybody but I actually feel everybody is right.
Objekt is an absolute beast. Maybe the serum of wavetables or the diva of analog emulation.
But clearly it would be also better with mpe and mpe does makes full sense for physical modelling to fully reproduce expressivity.

I sincerely hope R13 will bring mpe support.

I'm not fed up yet... I enjoy talking about MPE and other types of expressive synthesis. What that fellow is doing with a mic and Object is at least as expressive as MPE and it doesn't require an expensive controller. It's an impressive new approach!

What I hope is that Reason starts selling separate plugins! Object has set a new standard. Friktion is very good too.

[Jac459]

I am late to the discussion and everybody is already fed-up at everybody but I actually feel everybody is right.
Objekt is an absolute beast. Maybe the serum of wavetables or the diva of analog emulation.
But clearly it would be also better with mpe and mpe does makes full sense for physical modelling to fully reproduce expressivity.

I sincerely hope R13 will bring mpe support.

I'm not fed up yet... I enjoy talking about MPE and other types of expressive synthesis. What that fellow is doing with a mic and Object is at least as expressive as MPE and it doesn't require an expensive controller. It's an impressive new approach!

What I hope is that Reason starts selling separate plugins! Object has set a new standard. Friktion is very good too.

Please keep it strictly for you and in particular don't share it in KVR but.... ..... I have to say it....... ..... I think I prefer Friktion even more than Objekt (I know it is sinful).

[SLiC]

So, it’s now become the Live, Bitwig or Reason thread
Reason also has native audio pitch correction!

[pdxindy]

So, it’s now become the Live, Bitwig or Reason thread
Reason also has native audio pitch correction!

The more the merrier! It's not like there's anything else to say about Bitwig vs Live

[E_Anderson]

But what about reaper!!! Such DAW, much customizable - how can you compete!!


How I wish we could just plop Bitwig into any DAW, even just as an instrument, but especially... I mean maybe it's less astronomical if the wish was instead for Bitwig to get some of the same features I rely on for getting around an orchestral template. Right now, Bitwig is just the weird, sparsely-used zany electronic Yang to my very customized and efficient reaper Yin, never touching in the middle in their constant orbit of a shared musical goal

[xbitz]

^^^ Moss has created an extension to .dawproject so you can move projects between the two platforms Bitwig<>Reaper(<>StudoOne) https://github.com/git-moss/ProjectConverter

"This tool converts from Cockos Reaper projects to the open DAWproject format and back."

ps. Let's note that PreSonus plugins are not transferable (S1 tries to use the stock ones, and can't see the plugin counterparts) they need a wrapper around them, for example BlueCat PatchWork, to be able to move them between platforms. https://legacy.presonus.com/products/PreSonus-Hub if would like to use FatChannel or something

[xbitz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7FyJqe4Dag