Zebralette 3 Additive Engine Discussion

[Hanz Meyzer]

Noise IMO needs a LP/BP/HP control... Full band noise seems to me more an analog world thing. Maybe this could be solved with only one knob, using transitions?

Phase could provide much more options. e.g. a curve, so you could use a guide to setup each start phase (maybe already possible)? This could be solved only using the same selectbox, also providing "guide 1", "guide 2" and so on.

Harmonic clusters could provide the doubled range (2 octaves?). Cluster select indeed could snap to a tuning (I guess though that would be way too cpu heavy).

Maybe the spectral dist parameter could scale logarithmically, so it doesn't leave so quickly the harmonic terrain? At least sometimes I find very tiny amounts interesting, but it then is only one pixel of knob movement.

[psychichotline]

Noise IMO needs a LP/BP/HP control... Full band noise seems to me more an analog world thing. Maybe this could be solved with only one knob, using transitions?

Phase could provide much more options. e.g. a curve, so you could use a guide to setup each start phase (maybe already possible)? This could be solved only using the same selectbox, also providing "guide 1", "guide 2" and so on.

Harmonic clusters could provide the doubled range (2 octaves?). Cluster select indeed could snap to a tuning (I guess though that would be way too cpu heavy).

Maybe the spectral dist parameter could scale logarithmically, so it doesn't leave so quickly the harmonic terrain? At least sometimes I find very tiny amounts interesting, but it then is only one pixel of knob movement.

Or rather than LP/BP/HP, what about a slope knob that weights the noise from red to pink to white to blue to brown? So a bi-directional knob, turn one way and it increases the slope in one direction, turn the other way and it slopes in the other? Extreme settings would give a LP or HP feel, but for people wanting a specific color noise it also allows them to get that.

[hakey]

Harmonic clusters could provide the doubled range (2 octaves?).

Yes, I'd like more range for the Spectral Distortion in general. Perhaps a 'mulitply by x' button or allowing additional amounts to be applied from the mod matrix.

[marcinrau]

Speaking of modulating stuff in the Additive Engine I actually found something quite weird. When I move/modulate the Spectral Distortion knob or the Noise Knob up and then down again while holding a Note, the Effect doesn't disappear until I retrigger the note.

An another thing regarding the Noise Parameter, what is the difference to the retrigger button set to random? From my understanding they do the same thing, apart from the Noise Parameter being able to be more subtle as well. Wouldn't it make sense, to then just disable the retrigger button in the additive engine?

[Urs]

Speaking of modulating stuff in the Additive Engine I actually found something quite weird. When I move/modulate the Spectral Distortion knob or the Noise Knob up and then down again while holding a Note, the Effect doesn't disappear until I retrigger the note.

What you're hearing is that the phases of the harmonics are simply not aligned anymore. It's not the spectral distortion anymore, it's just that this is what it sounds like when the phases are not aligned due to the free running sine oscillators.

An another thing regarding the Noise Parameter, what is the difference to the retrigger button set to random? From my understanding they do the same thing, apart from the Noise Parameter being able to be more subtle as well. Wouldn't it make sense, to then just disable the retrigger button in the additive engine?

With random, the phases of then free running oscillators are always completely randomized from Note On.

[hakey]

Maybe the spectral dist parameter could scale logarithmically, so it doesn't leave so quickly the harmonic terrain? At least sometimes I find very tiny amounts interesting, but it then is only one pixel of knob movement.

Edit - hold 'Shift' for fine adjustment?

[marcinrau]

What you're hearing is that the phases of the harmonics are simply not aligned anymore. It's not the spectral distortion anymore, it's just that this is what it sounds like when the phases are not aligned due to the free running sine oscillators.

Ok, I tested this again and it seems like I had something on my master, that amplified the effect, so my bad here. I seems like it is just the Oscillators going out of sync and it's especially noticeable in the highend, therefor the resulting high pitched noise. I guess that's just a DPS limitation then. At least I can't think of a good way to get them back in sync.

With random, the phases of then free running oscillators are always completely randomized from Note On.

But doesn't that happen with the Noise Knob as well? Or does the Noise constantly modulate the phase instead of just starting it with random offset?

[Urs]

Yes, the Noise knob first adds a little drift, then increasingly fast random modulation of the spectrum, which lets the oscillators drift apart even further and quicker.

[marcinrau]

Ah ok, then the separation does make sense. Thank you for clarifying!

[C.Ray]

Hi. I really think a DC offset removal switch is needed for the oscillator. IMO. Thanks!

[glorkglunk]

What you're hearing is that the phases of the harmonics are simply not aligned anymore. It's not the spectral distortion anymore, it's just that this is what it sounds like when the phases are not aligned due to the free running sine oscillators.

This desync of phases is a very desirable effect sometimes, especially for getting wetter textures and it's exactly why the phase movement with the additive engine can be inconvenient even when making tonal sounds.

If the wavetable renderer had more ways to generate these types of phases it would make it a lot more reasonable to leave in the additive renderer, especially without using a osc effect just for that, but as of now there's virtually no way to get these textures out of the wavetable renderer.

Even if it were an osc effect using the guide curves, the amount of effort it would take to design similar sets of phases vs how easy it would be to slightly alter with a short envelope in the additive engine is a pretty significantly huge difference.

[achapi]

I am exploring the possibilities of Zebralette 3. It seems that I can create sounds that I thought were impossible before. For instance, I used the Additive feature to create the sound of breaking glass.
https://achapi.cloudfree.jp/sound/uhe_z ... lass01.mp3
It would be challenging to achieve this using any method other than sampling.
Thank you, Urs!

[uhoenig]

Hey achapi, great sound! Would you mind sharing the preset?

[Shiek927]

I am exploring the possibilities of Zebralette 3. It seems that I can create sounds that I thought were impossible before. For instance, I used the Additive feature to create the sound of breaking glass.
https://achapi.cloudfree.jp/sound/uhe_z ... lass01.mp3
It would be challenging to achieve this using any method other than sampling.
Thank you, Urs!

Good lord!! how the heck is this possible with pure synthesis

[psychichotline]

Adding to the chorus, please post that patch or give us info on how you got that sound!!

Its insane how quickly I went from "oh cool, two synthesis approaches, I'll have so much to work with" to "I am going to live in additive mode 24/7 until I die"