What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[soundmodel]

It is not that there aren't tools, but there is fewer insight into how to make them produce something interesting. The generic FM is an easy example. I once thought this when I thought why FM8 couldn't have sample oscillators.

I've not heard many good Pd patches tbh.

[Jac459]

It is not that there aren't tools, but there is fewer insight into how to make them produce something interesting. The generic FM is an easy example. I once thought this when I thought why FM8 couldn't have sample oscillators.

I've not heard many good Pd patches tbh.

No but you missed the point.
There is tools and tools.

You have the tools that are built to make you efficient and bring you quickly from A to B. Serum being the best example. ==> You don't want that for "novelty".
And you have the tools that help you to explore. The most iconic example is modular synthesis with crazy people plugging cables everywhere (don't quote me out of context here) to get strange sounding stuffs.
Bithwig/Grid is to my knowledge the absolute best example of that. It has a super open architecture with tons of stuffs to play with. And basically the limit is your imagination. You can rebuild from scratch wavetables, vector synthesis, physical synthesis, granular synthesis, not by taking a dedicated module but by creating your own assembling many micro modules...

Because at the end of the day. What you want is not really novelty what you want is explore new territories of sounds. The grid is your friend for that.
You can even invent the new type of synthesis that nobody has thought of yet and implement it in the grid.

[BertKoor]

Starting to feel like the thread needs to be renamed to 'tips to overcome dunning kruger in understanding the history of electronic music'

... or "How to overcome midlife crisis"

[vurt]

Starting to feel like the thread needs to be renamed to 'tips to overcome dunning kruger in understanding the history of electronic music'

... or "How to overcome midlife crisis"

/takes notes to prepare for 50th birthday next week...

[vurt]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

i was actually thinking along similar but not as extreme lines. not so much out of innovation, but wondering where music will go in the future?
we see 15/30 second videos being hits on tt and yt, will music end up as 15 - 30 seconds, with full abacab arrangements?

[_leras]

Yes, to being with, I think electronic music production is half engineering and half art. Most musicians only explore it as consumers of engineering. Yet some combine them.

Engineering and production are definitely important tools in modern production.

It could almost be argued that they're almost as important as composition, musicianship and instruments.

Certainly it can elevate a track from good to great, or great to amazing.

[eLawnMust]

20-30 years ago there was much simpler soft to use & mostly sample-based or straight MIDI workflow clean & clear & few distractions.. nowadays synths, sequencers, DAWs all over the place providing many distractions & also level of music shifting from musical creativity to one-finger dabbler stacking tons of FX way overmodulated or using 'construction kit' or 'MIDI chord packs'... Folks if you gotta buy a construction kit or a MIDI chord pack it's time to 'dabble' in some other hobby...

Also purpose of actually making music has changed, many want 'views' or 'comments' or weirder 'monetization' all adds up to dopamine hit. I see all kinda YT vids with dabblers having tons of equipment yet music is basic, tasteless & krappy. You don't need tons of stuff you need the concept of music you can make music in anything it's good to try simple workflows... I do music in simple 23 year-old tracker that's only 460kb-

https://alonetone.com/TalkOrBell/tracks/axs-jazzmonger

That's most recent, then-

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

I closed that account but music is still up... Frickin' soundcloud...

Tracker with single synth & the rest samples... Yeah I use better too but matters not...

The upshot is that if you are not makin' something YOU wanna listen to (not anybody else) then you are in the wrong hobby...

[Bunny_boy]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

i was actually thinking along similar but not as extreme lines. not so much out of innovation, but wondering where music will go in the future?
we see 15/30 second videos being hits on tt and yt, will music end up as 15 - 30 seconds, with full abacab arrangements?

Who did the Commercial Album? The Replacements? The one that's only verse-chorus. While I can't see it being all music, I can see it as being some sort of umbrella genre of songs which are just hook only, or like you say, really compressed.
Does this make Naked City the godfathers of your new musical experience?

[Bunny_boy]

Yes, to being with, I think electronic music production is half engineering and half art. Most musicians only explore it as consumers of engineering. Yet some combine them.

Engineering and production are definitely important tools in modern production.

How modern is modern? George Martin?

[Jac459]

20-30 years ago there was much simpler soft to use & mostly sample-based or straight MIDI workflow clean & clear & few distractions.. nowadays synths, sequencers, DAWs all over the place providing many distractions & also level of music shifting from musical creativity to one-finger dabbler stacking tons of FX way overmodulated or using 'construction kit' or 'MIDI chord packs'... Folks if you gotta buy a construction kit or a MIDI chord pack it's time to 'dabble' in some other hobby...

Also purpose of actually making music has changed, many want 'views' or 'comments' or weirder 'monetization' all adds up to dopamine hit. I see all kinda YT vids with dabblers having tons of equipment yet music is basic, tasteless & krappy. You don't need tons of stuff you need the concept of music you can make music in anything it's good to try simple workflows... I do music in simple 23 year-old tracker that's only 460kb-

https://alonetone.com/TalkOrBell/tracks/axs-jazzmonger

That's most recent, then-

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

I closed that account but music is still up... Frickin' soundcloud...

Tracker with single synth & the rest samples... Yeah I use better too but matters not...

The upshot is that if you are not makin' something YOU wanna listen to (not anybody else) then you are in the wrong hobby...

Well, I just listen to your track and it is a fun little track, no question.
But to me, I clearly see the limitations of the tool (and it reminds me myself using trackers 30 years ago). The way the song is interpreted is super robotic, there is no groove involved (a feature you have in DAW but not in trackers), on the hihats, they are all exactly the same, there should be randomness in the velocity, texture.

So in this case, despite your talent and effort, I still feel you are limited by the tool, in particular in a genre like jazz.

[Uncle E]

I do music in simple 23 year-old tracker that's only 460kb-

Agreed with Jac on this one. You're loaded with talent and great ideas. I love your harmonic progressions and transitions. The tools are the only parts of this equation that aren't fantastic.

Anyway, I get your point about making what you want to listen to. Hopefully you'll take what I'm saying as an acknowledgment and not as a critique.

[bmanic]

Yes, to being with, I think electronic music production is half engineering and half art. Most musicians only explore it as consumers of engineering. Yet some combine them.

Engineering and production are definitely important tools in modern production.

It could almost be argued that they're almost as important as composition, musicianship and instruments.

Certainly it can elevate a track from good to great, or great to amazing.

Mixing is an art in itself. It's almost entirely subjective with very little actual technical parts, in my opinion. As long as you keep the overall frequency response in a way that your vision translates to various sound systems, the rest is pure art.

So yeah, I completely agree. If you have a really simple and sparse arrangement with not much going on harmonically or melody wise, then the way it sounds can be the majority of the appeal of a track.

[lfm]

Sometimes all that is needed is chord progression and a brilliant arrangement and drama progression
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c56t7upa8Bk

at least it reels me in....

If it was in the 70's the song 'Pop corn' was probably one of the first synth based hits. It brought novelty...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg

Were they even thinking 'genre' or 'electronic music'?
- I don't think so

[Jac459]

Were they even thinking 'genre' or 'electronic music'?
- I don't think so

Yeah.... Such bunch of losers .

[JerGoertz]

https://alonetone.com/TalkOrBell/tracks/axs-jazzmonger

That's most recent, then-

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

I closed that account but music is still up... Frickin' soundcloud...

Tracker with single synth & the rest samples... Yeah I use better too but matters not...

The upshot is that if you are not makin' something YOU wanna listen to (not anybody else) then you are in the wrong hobby...

Really dig jazzmonger, sounds like maybe a slower Squarepusher? Nice one

Pulp Friction has some good ideas but I think it's let down by the production/sound-quality.

Anyways, it's pretty impressive that you're able to do these with such a minimal setup. I'd venture that most of us here are plugin/gear collectors to some degree, and it's nice to be reminded that a lot of it really isn't necessary to make good music.