MuLab 10

[oldcastle]

Hey everyone, I'm about to post this and take off!

As we're now at ML 9.5, it's only natural that thoughts about ML 10 start cropping up. So, this post is just my thoughts on what could be beneficial for MuLab and MuTools respectively, without any knowledge of what's already happening behind the scenes.

To keep things simple, in my humble opinion, ML 10 should prioritize User eXperience - all those "small" things that enhance and speed up our workflow, from merging MIDI notes to using CTRL+D to duplicate a track. The focus should be on the "frontend" of ML. For a moment, let's set aside MUX (I can hear some people screaming ). I've noticed that recent updates are geared towards the MUX part, which is great for advanced users, but not so much for beginners. And IF Jo wants ML to go mainstream, he'll need to focus on entry-level users. You might argue that the power of ML lies in MUX, and I agree with that. However, for beginners like myself, I'm not quite into it yet.

The good news is that I don't think ML is far from being a beginner-friendly DAW. It just needs some improvements here and there. Now, I understand that it might be a challenge for some of you to put on the beginner's hat. That's normal; it's how our brains work. But you can count on me for that.

[sl23]

Jo this isn't a dig at you so please don't be offended.

I've suggested a ton of feature requests to enhance the work flow and user experience of MuLab, as far as my very poor memory can remember, Jo hasn't replied to any. Sorry if you have. So I've no idea if anyone, or Jo, thinks they're useful. But tbh, I don't see how any of them isn't useful. I'm no programmer, but I've helped many developers improve their gui over the years with ideas.

I do understand and respect Jo's position I do agree with you though about M10 focusing on work flow improvements and gui enhancements.

Things like plugin management, favourites are a pain to adjust! Would be so much easier if all that could be done direct in the browser.

Preferences need an overhaul. Too many items and descriptions often not very clear. Grouping them would help.

But I'm just repeating what I've posted already. Let's hope these things and others get more focus to improve our beloved MuLab!

[Michael L]

Jo focuses on the UX all the time -- UX is the the whole experience, physical to psychological, including this forum.
What oldcastle may mean is the beginner 'use case' which is the interactsion between a user-role and the software system.
I don't believe there is a 'typical beginner hat' cuz some focus on GUI details, others on features, others on the daw as a whole, etc

[viceverser]

I agree with this sentiment... The usability and fluidity factor is very limited at the moment... It's very much in a state of "Synthedit" style usability, as in it's for very deep divers to use.

I recently got given a copy of Bitwig and using the Grid for 2 days managed to make synth patches that I couldn't dream of... The modules are setup in a way that all the peripheral patching is setup upon adding a device, and with the flick of a button the internal clock can be disabled per device.

The Clock is utilized in everything automatically, and BOOM, things just work... But you can still patch and get super techy with it... But the usability factor is incredible.

I know you aren't necessarily talking about The MUX side of it, but I believe that they go hand in hand... My biggest issue is the lack of Automatic Clock/Phase syncing in the MUX area... The need for a device to play a note on the timeline is super cumbersome and unnecessary...

The amount of times I want to just have a sync to the timeline automatically so I can do some clever modulation that is anchored and manageable only to find I have to put a note in the timeline in order to make it happen, then setup the routing to connect via an adapter of some sort is a lot for someone like me... I'm sure that makes me NOT the target audience, as can be clearly seen from the current design... It's meant for the mathematician more than the average musician, and I would LOVE for it to start favoring the average user... The beat grids are usable... But they should Automatically loop and lock to the next 4x4 bar... Simple things like that will make it AMAZING!!!

So yeah... This list could go forever, as it could for ALL apps, but I too would LOVE for the glaring bariers to entry to be brought down so that I could get deeper with the App without completely learning to become a rocket scientist

But hey, Rocket Scientists need a DAW too... Hehehe.

Anyway, agreed... D.

[mutools]

Interesting topic!

[dakkra]

I know I personally have a lot of UI/UX improvements I'd like to see. Too many for Jo to develop for sure I'll make a video on the major things I'd like to see improved. There's a lot of features I feel that Mulab could use, but of course that takes time for Jo to develop, if he considers some of them valuable additions to the software.

That being said, Mulab is in a state where I do consider it capable again. With APLC, amazing time-stretching, audio sequences, CLAP, and VST3, it has addressed a lot of the reasons why I looked for alternatives in the first place. I don't think I'll be switching to Mulab as my primary any time soon, but it's certainly significantly more capable now than how it was just a few short years ago.

All in all, I think Mulab has great potential, but it needs a serious upgrade in UI/UX to be able to convince people from other platforms to switch, and for professionals (sound designing, producing, mixing, mastering, etc...) to take Mulab seriously again. I've heard some producers and audio engineers write Mulab off as a toy or too simple of a tool. They are wrong, but that's a lot because Mulab gives off the wrong feeling to people at first glance AND because there are some house keeping things that keep it from feeling quick and easy to those who are used to other tool sets. It's why ProTools is still popular, despite the fact that it's dated, ugly, and has a terrible plugin ecosystem. It has the things people expect to be there, in the places they expect them to be in.

Back in M4, Mulab was my reigning champion. The value for it's features was unprecedented, and it made other software feel sheepishly immature (*cough* FLS)... but times have changed, and other software has evolved (and even started up, like Bitwig) since the days of M4/M5 (multi-core was a huge step up back then).

I've been using Mulab since 2012 (joined this forum for it) and it still holds a place near and dear to my heart. I'd like to see it continue to have a long and successful life, but that also means it needs to start competing with other software in order to thrive.

I know a lot of people use Mulab plugin exclusively as a chainer/modular plugin container, which is a little sad, but ultimately where Mulab currently derives it's power from. The MUX synths and FX are cool, but in comparison to the plugins that many people have, it's not as easy to use or as powerful. Synths and FX like Falcon (no FX version), MSoundFactory (MXXX for FX), Zebra, Bitwigs Grid, and Phase Plant (Multipass for FX), have all made modular synthesis and modular FX very easy and manageable. Not to mention they're very feature rich and keep up with modern standards and expectations.

Like I said, I'll make a video on what I think myself and others would like to see. I have a friend who is a very skilled producer who uses Mulab near full-time and he and I have been thinking a lot on what we think Mulab can do to improve.

[PelletProject]

I suppose I'll enter my two cents about this issue...

To add on to viceverser's sentiment of limited usability, I think a major factor can be explained this way: Whenever a new feature gets added to MuLab, although they may add modularity with the rest of the program, a consequence is that as a result, some older features tend to be stuck in one way, with little to no effort made to expand on them, which is partially why criticisms about MuLab tend to lament on how outdated it feels. To put it another way, there are some things MuLab does well that's ahead of the curve, but in others it almost feels like it refuses to evolve.

For example, I like the spectral timestretching in MuLab, VST3 and CLAP support, and the new bezier curves, too! Still though, making connections in any modular area is cumbersome, textboxes only responding to double-click to bring up another textbox and being unable to highlight text backwards drags the process, exporting to a file format within ONE drop-down menu leaves an easier method to be desired, replacing filters with different poles means I have to destructively get rid of one and replace it with another, and don't even get me started with the fact changing tempo is STILL relegated to a list editor. I don't wanna feel like I'm programming on my Yamaha PSR-225 when every other DAW in existence has used automation curves for the longest!

The fact that MuLab dares to be different I think helps it solidify its identity in a way that made me and other choose this DAW over others, especially in terms of value. Unfortunately, when it falls short on some of the things we've described so far, at some point other tools just make more sense. I remember a long time ago in this forum, sometimes FRs would be met with a response like "It can just be taken care of with a plugin." As a result, the few die-hards (myself included) who continue to use MuLab as a proper DAW after all this time are quite hard to come by, while most everyone else seems to use it for very specific use cases. Since 2012, I've started with M4 and have come to know most every feature inside and out, and I can put up with some of MuLab's idiosyncrasies, because that's what I'm most familiar with, and it's what I've grown to love after 12+ years. That said, despite loving to dive heavy into sound design, I've come to move away from using things like the MUX or MuSynth except using them to build kicks and snares for sample packs, while in most cases I use Serum or Vital, and thus I can't recommend MuLab to a beginner with confidence, as much as I would love to see this community grow, because I know other options exist that make it a LOT easier.

I think what MuLab can benefit from more is providing opportunities for options in workflow, particularly on the micro level. What if modules automatically made connections upon hovering over a connection as opposed to just connecting together traditionally? What if different module displays were interactable, and the mouse position would change certain settings like the knobs already do? What if this were expanded on, and you create a more refined compressor module that performs downwards or upwards compression with the interface that changes the ratio and knee upon mouse click, or a proper graphical interface for an EQ module? How about a more extensive list of keyboard shortcuts for DSP functions or the Audio Sequence Editor? Or a way to use event and modulation generators and processes within racks separate from what it can already do in the modular area? Of course, there are many different ways to go about these sorts of implementations, but in my opinion, they make a good step forward in improving user experience.

I could go on and on about all sorts of requests that would take far too long to go through, and the last thing I want to do is overwhelm Jo with all sorts of ideas with no regard for sorting them by importance. Like I've mentioned, it's good that MuLab stands out as its own workflow that I and many others enjoy today, but if we want to stand a chance of being taken seriously as a DAW, which it ABSOLUTELY has the potential for, brainstorming improvements of what's already there is a good start. I don't program, so I can only do so much as a producer by providing as much of a good word to the software as I can, and I do my best with showing my DAW to other people, with varying responses to its interface, from "It reminds me of Max MSP" to "Wow, that looks ugly!" Whatever the case, I so badly want to see the day that people look past the stigma and look at MuLab for what it strives to be: a well-rounded capable modular DAW with an easy-to-understand workflow.

I just hope that it happens sooner rather than later, or worse still, not at all.

[dakkra]

For the record, PelletProject is said friend of mine who uses Mulab near full-time

[sl23]

I love the way MuLab looks, whenever I've tried other daws I find them awkward, inconvenient and ugly. I find MuLab so well laid out and, forgive my previous frustrations Jo, I agree 100% with above comments. Selecting text is archaic and should really be easier. Double clicking a word to select has been common for as long as I've had a computer I believe, 2005.

This is why M10 needs a major work flow overhaul instead of new fascinating features. Make it easier to do the things we can already do. That's why I've been going FR crazy lately! There's just so much I would like to see made easier.

I think the trouble is that Jo's situation is unique. When you compare it to today's daw companies, Jo is struggling to keep up, and it's perfectly understandable. You've done an absolutely amazing job, and I for one love MuLab, despite its little quirkles!

Like dakkra and friend, I've been using MuLab since end of M3, though very occasionally until recent times. And I've tried several times to move away for better features, easier workflow, but I just can't be bothered to waste what little time I have learning another program.

I really hope MuLab gets the much needed improve it's.

Thanks Jo for dedicating so much time to this beloved program, it's been a pleasure to use and I'm sure I speak for many users when I say that we look forward to the next release with the hope these little things can get sorted

[oldcastle]

This is why M10 needs a major work flow overhaul instead of new fascinating features.

Agreed!

While we have advanced users here who would love to see the MUX bit become more powerful and easier for them to use, personally, I would simply expect the simple or expected workflows from a modern DAW.

I've tried out all the DAWs out there, but I ended up buying MuLab. I love everything about MuLab, no hate here, just a few things missing.

Unlike other commercial DAWs, Jo is a one-man show, and he faces a huge challenge now. The best thing, I believe, we can do here is to try to make Jo's job easier. I like drakka's idea of creating videos for the missing features. I think we should all do that. It's easier to understand and avoids misinterpretation from all sides.

I don't believe MuLab is incapable as a DAW or that it's not "professional" enough. That's more on our side than on the software itself. So, to reiterate, in my point of view, MuLab just needs some polishing.

[sl23]

Videos are a better medium, but also time consuming to watch! That's the only downside.

For me, although I really appreciate the MuX, I don't really use it. I've tried to create some things, cos it was fun to do so, but there are just so many free plugins that I can't warrant the time. But MuX does add several features under the hood that make MuLab what it is, I'm sure. One useful feature is the ability to add plugins inside a MuX. This allows things that are hard or impossible to achieve in other daws.

[Michael L]

The focus on a faster and smoother workflow with more expected actions in their expected places is very cool because it builds on the existing strength of MuLab and its solo developer, who can envision and make a logically-consistent program that is easy to learn and use at different levels of expertise.

[audiojunkie]

Interesting topic!

While we are at it, it would be nice to see MuLab join the Linux realm as a native application. It would be absolutely welcomed with open arms.

[oldcastle]

Interesting topic!

While we are at it, it would be nice to see MuLab join the Linux realm as a native application. It would be absolutely welcomed with open arms.

Say no more!

[liquidsound]

Interesting topic!

While we are at it, it would be nice to see MuLab join the Linux realm as a native application. It would be absolutely welcomed with open arms.

Absolutely. It would also expose MuLab even more to the rest of the music community.