Bye bye VST2

[Audiority]

Hi guys,

looks like Steinberg terminated all previous agreements that will allow us developers to build VST2 plugins. The new agreement is here: https://github.com/steinbergmedia/vst3s ... eement.pdf

and a Dev forum thread we came across: viewtopic.php?t=508845&start=420

I don't know how many of you is still using VST2 as a format but, at this point, we will be forced to not include this format with the next updates and new products.

Luca

[Burillo]

well, this was a long time coming. hopefully more developers move to CLAP after this.

[planet_b]

Hopefully Ableton would implement working system for VST3 presets, as in it's current state it's pretty inconvenient, especially with Live 12. As you really need to hop through unnecessary hoops to access them. This is why some prefer to use VST2 version of the plugins.

[gaggle of hermits]

clause 9.8 is just stunningly bad lawyering: "8. Any and all prior Agreements between Steinberg and the Licensee shall be automatically terminated by signing this Agreement."

what, including any of the dev's purchased licences? like cubase for y'know, testing things? that's just nuts.

if they want to just kill off vst2, why not say it out loud instead of putting in BS like clause 1.6? "6. This Agreement neither applies to the development nor the hosting of VST2 Plug-Ins."

[carrieres]

is there any problem with VST3 today ?
AFAIR, Midi learn is still problematic, any one can confirm ?

[Urs]

clause 9.8 is just stunningly bad lawyering: "8. Any and all prior Agreements between Steinberg and the Licensee shall be automatically terminated by signing this Agreement."

what, including any of the dev's purchased licences? like cubase for y'know, testing things? that's just nuts.

if they want to just kill off vst2, why not say it out loud instead of putting in BS like clause 1.6? "6. This Agreement neither applies to the development nor the hosting of VST2 Plug-Ins."

Yeah, I have been wondering about that for years.

Our lawyer says, §1 limits the scope to host and plug-in development, such that "prior agreements" refer to agreements within that scope.

But then again, §1.6 can be understood to exclude VST2 from the scope of the agreement as well. Ugh.

Note that the whole situation first came up in March 2021, where the wording was "any prior VST2 and/or VST3 Plug-In SDK Agreements" (v3.7.2_build_28) in the termination clause. In reply to request for clarification, Steinberg said they would release a new version with a built-in transition time. But instead they released versions that merely concealed the issue in less obvious wording.

[EvilDragon]

is there any problem with VST3 today ?
AFAIR, Midi learn is still problematic, any one can confirm ?

There are still lots of problems with VST3 on a conceptual level.

[martinjuenke]

Time to switch to Audio Unit format.

[kmonkey]

There are still lots of problems with VST3 on a conceptual level.

Yet many plugins simply work fine in VST3. A miracle.

[MirkoVanHauten]

But doesn't any of this only apply if you sign a new license agreement with Steinberg? Are you forced to do that or could you just work with the one you already have? What changed in the SDK as reasons to update?

[SHall1000]

Hopefully Ableton would implement working system for VST3 presets, as in it's current state it's pretty inconvenient, especially with Live 12. As you really need to hop through unnecessary hoops to access them. This is why some prefer to use VST2 version of the plugins.

Can you say more about what the issue in Live 12 is please. I am not aware of this and have just started to migrate to VST3. Thanks.

[dionenoid]

is there any problem with VST3 today ?
AFAIR, Midi learn is still problematic, any one can confirm ?

No problems here. Only benefits.

There were only a handful of devs who had issues with Midi learn, but mostly they are solved by now.

[gaggle of hermits]

Yeah, I have been wondering about that for years.

Our lawyer says, §1 limits the scope to host and plug-in development, such that "prior agreements" refer to agreements within that scope.

it’s a fair point and a reasonable assumption. But clause 1.1 isn’t exactly clear and if the phrase “any and all” doesn’t actually mean any and all, why is it there?

I can’t make my mind up whether it’s straight-up incompetence or whether the lawyers have told the pointed-headed boss responsible for this snafu they can’t make what the boss wants explicit without rendering the contract open to an easy legal challenge from a competitor so they just resorted to pettifogging in the hope it would result in the desired effect by making enough plug-in developers nervous enough about the situation. in doing so they might have written a contract that would fall apart in front of a judge anyway (but probably won’t get there because a challenger would need deep pockets).

[jens]

Time to switch to Audio Unit format.

Yeah, they work splendidly on my Zenbook (which mops the floor with any laptop Apple currently sells)

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm always happy to see new CLAP plugins. I hope more and more devs will be transitioning over and out from underneath Steinberg's thumb.

Steiny's been a bad actor here, and there's no reason they couldn't try to pull on these same kinds of licensing levers in the future. A truly open standard is more important than ever.