Is there a DAW that allows you to freeze multiple clips into 1 wav, then explode the wav back into the clips later?

[Greenstorm33]

It's not really freezing if you're not doing the entire track, it's a bounce in place. Bitwig lets you use bounce in place on the meta clip for a group track, resulting in an audio clip that moves around with the deactivated component clips. You are of course responsible for disabling the instrument/effects if that's what you want to do because there's no guarantee that you've bounced every clip in the track.

group bip.png

I'll also note that no version of bounce in place I've come across works if the sound has some kind of tail (e.g. reverb or release on a synth) because the resulting audio clip has to be the same length as the clip it's replacing.

Add an extra instrument track in the group and make a longer clip (empty) and the group Bounce in Place will be as long as the longest clip and catch the reverb tail.

Or you can make a time selection longer than the existing clips and that will also render a longer bounce in place with the reverb tail.

This works well in Bitwig.

Does that work if you have adjacent sets of clips that you want to bounce and move separately? I know you can do a normal bounce with a time selection to capture the tail but it doesn't seem like it works for a bounce in place like this where the clips are right next to each other. I could be totally wrong though in which case I'll have learned something new

[pdxindy]

It's not really freezing if you're not doing the entire track, it's a bounce in place. Bitwig lets you use bounce in place on the meta clip for a group track, resulting in an audio clip that moves around with the deactivated component clips. You are of course responsible for disabling the instrument/effects if that's what you want to do because there's no guarantee that you've bounced every clip in the track.

group bip.png

I'll also note that no version of bounce in place I've come across works if the sound has some kind of tail (e.g. reverb or release on a synth) because the resulting audio clip has to be the same length as the clip it's replacing.

Add an extra instrument track in the group and make a longer clip (empty) and the group Bounce in Place will be as long as the longest clip and catch the reverb tail.

Or you can make a time selection longer than the existing clips and that will also render a longer bounce in place with the reverb tail.

This works well in Bitwig.

Does that work if you have adjacent sets of clips that you want to bounce and move separately? I know you can do a normal bounce with a time selection to capture the tail but it doesn't seem like it works for a bounce in place like this where the clips are right next to each other. I could be totally wrong though in which case I'll have learned something new

Mute the adjacent clips and make your time selection if you want to exclude those clips.

[swivel]

I am still curious if any other DAWs/music apps have implemented this concept, but it doesn't seem so.

Greenstorm33 described how to do it in Bitwig.

Unfortunately not. In Bitwig if you just keep the bounced clip and delete the original tracks/clips you cannot recover the originating tracks/clips from the bounced clip.

Reaper subprojects allows this: if you double-click a clip made from a subproject, it will open the subproject in a new project tab that you can edit.

[swivel]

I need the rendered wav to contain all the information I need to recreate itself. If I copy the wav into another project for example, that's all I should need to explode and edit the constituent parts. It's about ease of use and workflow.

Not sure how you even in theory think this could work?

(...)

Well, it's implemented in reaper with subprojects so it exists. It could be a little more streamlined, but the basic concept is there and it works.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ubprojects

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBpP-tvTeM

[pdxindy]

I am still curious if any other DAWs/music apps have implemented this concept, but it doesn't seem so.

Greenstorm33 described how to do it in Bitwig.

Unfortunately not. In Bitwig if you just keep the bounced clip and delete the original tracks/clips you cannot recover the originating tracks/clips from the bounced clip.

You misunderstood. You have your tracks in a group and you bounce the group master. The sub tracks are still there and you can always go back to them. You can either disable the clips or the tracks depending on whether there are other clips in the tracks you want to keep live.

I would prefer this method to the sub-projects concept in Reaper cause with the sub-projects, you cannot freeze just the one section of time... it is the whole tracks in the subproject or nothing. You also cannot try a small edit in the main project without re-rendering the whole sub-project.

In Bitwig, at any time I can mute the bounced audio and unmute the sub-track clips if I want to try a small edit without having to do any re-rendering.

[swivel]

Unfortunately not. In Bitwig if you just keep the bounced clip and delete the original tracks/clips you cannot recover the originating tracks/clips from the bounced clip.

You misunderstood. You have your tracks in a group and you bounce the group master. The sub tracks are still there and you can always go back to them. You can either disable the clips or the tracks depending on whether there are other clips in the tracks you want to keep live.

I would prefer this method to the sub-projects concept in Reaper cause with the sub-projects, you cannot freeze just the one section of time... it is the whole tracks in the subproject or nothing. You also cannot try a small edit in the main project without re-rendering the whole sub-project.

In Bitwig, at any time I can mute the bounced audio and unmute the sub-track clips if I want to try a small edit without having to do any re-rendering.

Bitwig doesn't have anything equivalent to subprojects which is what I was asking for.

The key feature of subprojects is that you don't need to keep anything in the master track aside from the bounced subproject. Let's say you make a drum beat with 5 tracks and make 5 variations of it. In reaper with subprojects, you have 1 track with 5 bounced subprojects on it - easy to arrange, easy to experiment, easy to make new variations without impacting the originals. In Bitwig you end-up having to keep 5x5 = 25 tracks around, whether disabled or not. And you have to manually figure out which are matched with which bounce if you want to edit a bounce later. It doesn't scale and is impracticable for how I work at least.

But yes, it's not for everyone. I tend to like low track count projects which subprojects encourage.

[pdxindy]

Bitwig doesn't have anything equivalent to subprojects which is what I was asking for.

The key feature of subprojects is that you don't need to keep anything in the master track aside from the bounced subproject. Let's say you make a drum beat with 5 tracks and make 5 variations of it. In reaper with subprojects, you have 1 track with 5 bounced subprojects on it - easy to arrange, easy to experiment, easy to make new variations without impacting the originals. In Bitwig you end-up having to keep 5x5 = 25 tracks around, whether disabled or not. And you have to manually figure out which are matched with which bounce if you want to edit a bounce later. It doesn't scale and is impracticable for how I work at least.

But yes, it's not for everyone. I tend to like low track count projects which subprojects encourage.

Sorry, but everything you said about the workflow in Bitwig is incorrect. But I don't feel like explaining it and anyway you found the solution you want so all good!

[imrae]

It is possible in REAPER to combine the tracks into a multichannel audio clip by sending each to different audio channels of one track and running a multichannel bounce.

Then on that channel you can use one of the JS mixers to make a simple stereo mix, or break it into individual channels with an "explode multichannel audio" action.
But I think the coolest way to use this would be using sends to dispatch each audio channel to its own mixer channel.

[bermudagold]

Tracktion has had this for years as "track loops"...part of its taxonomy/ontology for its pseudo object oriented philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxLKtjJVm3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSIdGLjf7DE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPwOSTrLXT8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgJmOFNrErc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yp1gd5q15Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCH3-FnIEs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYQv88rHObk

[swivel]

Tracktion has had this for years as "track loops"...part of its taxonomy/ontology for its pseudo object oriented philosophy

Interesting, but not quite the same as subprojects. With a subproject you bounce multiple tracks down to a clip; I watched all the Tracktion videos you posted but everything seems to be on a single track basis.

[bermudagold]

Tracktion has had this for years as "track loops"...part of its taxonomy/ontology for its pseudo object oriented philosophy

Interesting, but not quite the same as subprojects. With a subproject you bounce multiple tracks down to a clip; I watched all the Tracktion videos you posted but everything seems to be on a single track basis.

haven't reviewed the reaper version yet for comparison...but both the "track loop" and "arranger clip" constructs can be multitrack containers...and I believe therefore that all the container functionality, clip fx, clip automation, consolidation, explosion, and point freezing are also all available.

[dellboy]

I realise that its not what the OP is looking for, but for the rest of us "AI Stem Seperation" will surely become a sort after tool for a DAW to include. Its already in FL Studio, and I see that Mixcraft 10.5 now has it built in. You can now take any audio stream and split in into its various original tracks. I have never tried it, but it would be interesting to know how good the output quality is from those who have used it.

[bermudagold]

I realise that its not what the OP is looking for, but for the rest of us "AI Stem Seperation" will surely become a sort after tool for a DAW to include. Its already in FL Studio, and I see that Mixcraft 10.5 now has it built in. You can now take any audio stream and split in into its various original tracks. I have never tried it, but it would be interesting to know how good the output quality is from those who have used it.

yeah I think all DAWs will add this, just like plugin chaining, visual routing, parameter modulators, "audio as midi" editors, actual audio to midi conversion...all things people used plugins or external apps for in early adoption...tracktion was early on all those as in this case as well...I think they were first to add it, then serato studio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI5fwH1-wOQ

[dellboy]

I realise that its not what the OP is looking for, but for the rest of us "AI Stem Seperation" will surely become a sort after tool for a DAW to include. Its already in FL Studio, and I see that Mixcraft 10.5 now has it built in. You can now take any audio stream and split in into its various original tracks. I have never tried it, but it would be interesting to know how good the output quality is from those who have used it.

yeah I think all DAWs will add this, just like plugin chaining, visual routing, parameter modulators, "audio as midi" editors, actual audio to midi conversion...all things people used plugins or external apps for in early adoption...tracktion was early on all those as in this case as well...I think they were first to add it, then serato studio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI5fwH1-wOQ

I have a Tracktion Waveform Pro 12.5 licence and did not know that they had included this feature. I have just downloaded a wave file and split it to stems using Waveform and the results are pretty good. Only four stem seperation at the moment.

[swivel]

I realise that its not what the OP is looking for, but for the rest of us "AI Stem Seperation" will surely become a sort after tool for a DAW to include. Its already in FL Studio, and I see that Mixcraft 10.5 now has it built in. You can now take any audio stream and split in into its various original tracks. I have never tried it, but it would be interesting to know how good the output quality is from those who have used it.

There are online tools too like lala.ai which I have had good results with.

But like you say, this is different from subprojects, because even if the AI stem separator perfectly splits an audio file into its original tracks, they are still just audio. The subproject gives you all the FX, VSTi's and midi clips with their settings so you can easily change the midi notes to a bass part for example or edit the FX, or mute tracks etc...