Is REAPER the current worst long term choice?

[jens]

Everyone constantly complains about how long it takes to customize reaper

It's not just that - what makes it even a lot worse is that:

a) all the various required settings are spread semi-randomly across the programme.
Some are preferences; some are default project-settings; some options are hidden beneath various menus and sub-menus - it's a complete mess

b) the amount of required settings is far from being only the product of flexibility but in a lot of cases much rather the product of the developers' apparent inability to come up with a reasonable, generally functioning configuration.

Reaper Bros act like the tedium of customizing is a secret initiation that proves your manhood.

Yeah, because I am convinced that they are mere tinkerers - sorry to say, but I am convinced that a fair percentage of the most vocal user-base has to a far greater degree the hobby/passion of configuring Reaper than actually making music. As such I came to the conclusion that it is rather pointless to have a conversation with them. We may use the same application - but we do so for a wholy different purpose.

[liquidsound]

Baseless conclusion of course.

[Michael L]

We may use the same application - but we do so for a wholly different purpose.

The Reaper is Death to Musical Ideas

(Liquidsound found a workaround using MuLab)

[mabian]

You are all right.

[liquidsound]

We may use the same application - but we do so for a wholly different purpose.

The Reaper is Death to Musical Ideas

(Liquidsound found a workaround using MuLab)

MuLab has been actually my workaround for Ableton and Bitwig as well.

[Michael L]

We may use the same application - but we do so for a wholly different purpose.

The Reaper is Death to Musical Ideas

(liquidsound found a workaround using MuLab)

MuLab has been actually my workaround for Ableton and Bitwig as well.

MuLab has the unique advantage of a solo developer who is sensitive to the creative flow, in ways that a committee is not.

[jens]

Baseless conclusion of course.

Not at all baseless - when I mentioned over at the Reaper-forum that due to the extremely messy/absurd faulty implementation of the new take-system clips potentially disappear just by being moved to another track, one of the regulars asked "Why would you like to copy the comp results to other tracks ?" - could you believe? They really asked that.

The whole absurd thread is here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=285035

Note how:

- they are like: "we have a lot of experience with other DAWs and put a lot of work into helping to shape this new take-system (basically with that trying to forbid any critique)

Yeah? If that's the case then why does Reaper's new take/comp-system work unlike anything I've seen before? All other DAWs that support comping more or less do the same thing in quite a similar way (so it's easy to use it right away when coming from another DAW), yet Reaper handles it completely different.

- even Schwa himself didn't seem to know that once you used the "fixed item lanes" function for any given track, there's no going back. It'll always switch back to it automatically for any subsequent recording. The track is infected and stays that way, so to speak.

- they say "we don't want to shut you up" while ganging up on me with their clueless nonsense and stupid wannabe-expert crap (so they finally succeeded - I just didn't have it in me to continue that seemingly pointless conversation with these... blind fanatics. There, I said it.)


How many fixes/additions did this new feature receive since 7.0?

Lanes: action to duplicate items to new lane does not set new lane playing .
Lanes: add actions to explicitly make all lanes big/small
Lanes: add actions to explicitly show one/all lanes
Lanes: preference to add whole recording when auto-punch recording into a fixed lane track applies regardless of whether comping is enabled
Lanes: preference to allow mouse edits in comping lane to expand media items in source lanes is enabled by default for users who have not previously edited the preference (or related preferences)
Lanes: track setting to record into first available lane does what it says, even if there is an earlier recording below the new recording
Lanes: add option (via Options menu or action) for razor edits on small fixed lane tracks to affect all lanes
Lanes: fix pasting razor edits on grouped tracks .
Lanes: set target lane for insert/paste when preference disabled to set target track when clicking in arrange view, and user clicks on the current target track
Lanes: when naming/renaming lanes, support applying name to all lanes and/or replacing '#' with lane number
Lanes: actions to move items up/down by lane respect project auto-crossfade setting .
Lanes: action to move comp area up/down for selected items skips lanes with no media .
Lanes: add setting (on mouse modifiers preferences page) for media item edits in comping lane to affect media item edges in source lane (clamped to source media start/end)
Lanes: exit fixed lanes when edits move all items to one lane on track with hidden lanes
Lanes: improve MIDI editor behavior with certain combinations of preferences on fixed lane tracks
Lanes: improve behavior when lanes contain multiple copies of the same source media with different take envelopes .
Lanes: click unsynced media item button to copy edits to a new source lane (existing behavior)
Lanes: ctrl/cmd+click (or right-click) unsynced media item button to copy media items back to original source lane
Lanes: alt/opt+click (or right-click) unsynced media item button to discard edits and replace with source lane media
Lanes: improve behavior when comping looped media items with per-take automation .
Lanes: action to comp into a new copy of lane automatically copies edited media items to new lane and re-comps
Lanes: action to minimize lane usage respects track edit grouping
Lanes: add action, menu item, mouse modifier to refresh out-of-sync comp areas
Lanes: add actions to exit fixed lane view, show only one lane, set small lanes, or set big lanes for all fixed lane tracks in the project
Lanes: add action to remove empty comp areas
Lanes: add selected-tracks versions of actions to delete comp areas, delete empty comp areas, delete comp areas including media
Lanes: add support for copying all edited media items back to source lanes, or discarding all media item edits and replacing from source lanes
Lanes: comping button on a razor edit in the comping lane containing no items will choose a suitable source lane rather than creating an empty lane
Lanes: delete unsynced comp areas before running action to minimize lane usage
Lanes: fix behavior of action to select item under mouse when lanes are collapsed .
Lanes: fix comping into a new copy of lane with MIDI media .
Lanes: fix re-syncing multiple media items when some items have source media in the lane immediately below and some do not
Lanes: fix some edge cases where comp areas un-sync when edges barely overlap .
Lanes: respect track grouping when running action from unsynced comp area right-click menu .
Lanes: support "Add comp area at time selection" when right-clicking existing comp area on track showing only one lane
Lanes: support comping media items with "auto-stretch at tempo changes" enabled
Lanes: action to reset lane names will reset lanes named like 'C1' if they have no comp areas
Lanes: fix crash when trying to insert more than 128 lanes
Lanes: fix drag/drop with certain lane counts .
Lanes: fix editing vertical edge of razor edit on fixed lane tracks
Lanes: fix moving comp areas to lower-numbered lanes via razor edit .
Lanes: fix play cursor drawing glitch in certain situations .
Lanes: fix possible mouse click miss when track is greatly zoomed in .
Lanes: fix undo after changing comping lane .
Lanes: fix undo potentially resetting overlapping recording preference .
Lanes: fix resetting lane height when moving items across tracks in certain situations .
Lanes: if recording exceeds maximum number of lanes (currently 128), place recording in last lane
Lanes: ignore items in hidden lanes in various navigation and other actions .
Lanes: improve action to move items up to minimize lane usage
Lanes: improve behavior when auto-punch recording and setting enabled to record into first available lane
Lanes: improve shift+click media item selection behavior .
Lanes: improve visibility of unsynced media item button in default theme
Lanes: recalculate auto-crossfades after actions to move items up/down by lanes
Lanes: when preference enabled to vertically offset overlapping items, items respect original lane order if track formerly displayed fixed lanes
Lanes: add action to move items up to minimize lane usage
Lanes: clear comp area controls mouseover when mouse leaves arrange view
Lanes: fix moving media items on higher-numbered lanes .
Lanes: fix pencil-drawing with certain numbers of lanes
Lanes: actions to delete comp areas have no effect if comping is disabled
Lanes: action to reset lane names preserves comp lane identifiers, but resets comp lane numbers
Lanes: add actions to explicitly show or hide fixed lane buttons
Lanes: add action to delete source media within comp areas and re-comp for selected tracks
Lanes: add menu item, action to delete all lanes except for the clicked lane
Lanes: add preference to show/play only one lane by default
Lanes: display lane collapse button when track is tall enough, regardless of user setting for empty space at bottom of track .
Lanes: display media item re-sync buttons when lanes are collapsed .
Lanes: fix behavior of toggle action to set track to fixed lanes when multiple tracks are selected with mixed states
Lanes: fix crash when right-clicking comp lane that has no comp areas .
Lanes: fix lane size changing when moving media items out of and back into fixed lane tracks .
Lanes: fix occasionally pasting razor edits into the incorrect lanes .
Lanes: fix pencil-drawing media items on tracks with hidden lanes when multiple lanes are playing
Lanes: fix recording overlapping media on tracks that were formerly set to fixed lanes
Lanes: recording behaviors are equivalent for a track that has never had lanes vs a track that was formerly in fixed lane view
Lanes: when disabling fixed lanes, only retain hidden lane information if there are hidden media items or items on multiple lanes .
Lanes: when reordering lanes, only affect other selected tracks with the same number of lanes Lanes: when showing/playing only one lane, ignore actions that would result in no lanes or multiple lanes playing
Lanes: add lane collapse button right-click menu item to disable/re-enable fixed lanes
Lanes: add track setting to show/hide lane buttons (right-click or alt-click lane collapse button)
Lanes: allow clicking above or below lane button to initiate dragging/reordering lanes without changing lane play state .
Lanes: display razor edit comp area control differently when clicking would re-sync rather than comping
Lanes: enable option to record into first available lane even when layering lanes .
Lanes: handle section/reversed media properly when comping .
Lanes: improve display of lane names in lane button menu
Lanes: improve display of overlapping media items when a fixed lane track is taken out of fixed lane view .
Lanes: improve lane area display and mouse interaction with non-100% layouts
Lanes: improve shift+click selection behavior on fixed lane trackLanes: display comping button on razor edits in fixed lane tracks even if there is only one lane
Lanes: do not display comping button on razor edits when fixed lanes have been hidden s
Lanes: respect setting to record into the first available lane when recording multiple loops into an empty track .
Lanes: when 'record into first available lane' is enabled, skip comping lanes if any
Lanes: when disabling comping, handle special case where a 2nd empty lane is displayed and autoremove lanes is enabled .
Lanes: when showing only one lane, support switching to any other lane via lane button right-click menu

Plus there's a whole of seperate "comping" entries in the changelog.

I don't even know what most of these mean/do - in any case it gets messier and messier and they keep adding options left and right.

So they replaced something that was a bit messy and cumbersome with something that's even a lot more messy and cumbersome. And now that they implemented this, there is no way that Reaper will ever get a proper comping-function.

[VOODOO U]

MuLab has been actually my workaround for Ableton and Bitwig as well.

Is it possible to sync multiple composers so they all play/stop simultaneously *and* have the option for exclusive BPM on each?

[liquidsound]

MuLab has been actually my workaround for Ableton and Bitwig as well.

Is it possible to sync multiple composers so they all play/stop simultaneously *and* have the option for exclusive BPM on each?

Never tried that. From a YouTube video I watched it seems to be possible.
I will investigate though.

[VOODOO U]

MuLab has been actually my workaround for Ableton and Bitwig as well.

Is it possible to sync multiple composers so they all play/stop simultaneously *and* have the option for exclusive BPM on each?

Never tried that. From a YouTube video I watched it seems to be possible.
I will investigate though.

Sounds good!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yeah, because I am convinced that they are mere tinkerers - sorry to say, but I am convinced that a fair percentage of the most vocal user-base has to a far greater degree the hobby/passion of configuring Reaper than actually making music. As such I came to the conclusion that it is rather pointless to have a conversation with them. We may use the same application - but we do so for a wholy different purpose.

I'd recommend anyone considering Reaper to check out Jon from the Reaper blog's video series called something like "The Defaults Are All Wrong". It took me like a good 18 months to land on almost identical settings across the board, then that video series came out. If the Reaper devs just used his settings as defaults for new installs, I really think a lot of users would be up and running a lot quicker. There has also been lots of improvement recently with the addition of lanes and the mouse modifier buttons (aka "tools") that got added just recently. Suddenly left drag can be marquee select, or razer edit, or time select just by clicking on various butons to activate the tool like every other DAW ever.

It's actually not a bad time to get into Reaper. It even looks muich nicer on Mac. Still has ugly spots on Windows though.

[liquidsound]

MuLab has been actually my workaround for Ableton and Bitwig as well.

Is it possible to sync multiple composers so they all play/stop simultaneously *and* have the option for exclusive BPM on each?

Never tried that. From a YouTube video I watched it seems to be possible.
I will investigate though.

Sounds good!

I briefly tried 2 composers and yes, you can have them start and stop together or independently according to the way you like to set them up.
BPM and Time Signature are independent as well.

[VOODOO U]

I briefly tried 2 composers and yes, you can have them start and stop together or independently according to the way you like to set them up.
BPM and Time Signature are independent as well.

How are you setting it up so that multiple composers start/stop simultaneously?
I was unable to find anything that allows me to do this (using demo).
I attempted with Live Sync Mode and Note Action Maps.

[liquidsound]

There may be different ways of achieving this (MuLab is freaking deep).

In the "Project Modular Area", I made a copy of the Composer already there (quick way) and now they are auto-named Composer(1) and Composer (2).

Connect (2) like the (1): Audio In & Audio Out.

Add to the "Project Modular Area" the "Piano Keyboard Module" located in the "Event Generators" (I'm on a Laptop right now, so I'm using the PC keyboard).

Connect the "Piano Keyboard Module" to both Composer's "Event Input".

Setup each Composer to be triggered by a "Note Action Map" value like C1 or any other note value like this:
C1 = Play TimeLine
D1 = Stop TimeLine

Play those Notes to Start and Stop both Composers.

Like I said, I've never done this, so, it may not be the best way for doing it...

[VOODOO U]

There may be different ways of achieving this (MuLab is freaking deep).

In the "Project Modular Area", I made a copy of the Composer already there (quick way) and now they are auto-named Composer(1) and Composer (2).

Connect (2) like the (1): Audio In & Audio Out.

Add to the "Project Modular Area" the "Piano Keyboard Module" located in the "Event Generators" (I'm on a Laptop right now, so I'm using the PC keyboard).

Connect the "Piano Keyboard Module" to both Composer's "Event Input".

Setup each Composer to be triggered by a "Note Action Map" value like C1 or any other note value like this:
C1 = Play TimeLine
D1 = Stop TimeLine

Play those Notes to Start and Stop both Composers.

Like I said, I've never done this, so, it may not be the best way for doing it...

Aw hellz yea I'm rockin and rollin now! Thanks liquidsound!