KVR Audio

kab · Post by **kab** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:47 pm

This is one of the areas where I'm lucky. Since I play all my own guitar, bass, keyboard and drums I can do whatever the hell I want and no one can stop me

AMEN.

geeseaplenty · Post by **geeseaplenty** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:50 pm

Seriously: I'm trying to make a point by over-simplifying. I know that the world is much more complicated (thank god, even if he's a woman). But still. Listen to the radio. Bum-cha-Bum-cha.

This happens to emulate the pulse that all humanity identifies with. Ever instinctively tap your toe to music that has no drums?

pheeleep · Post by **pheeleep** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:52 pm

even without a drummer, in typical music you often end up with hand clapping, tambourine shaking, etc. that basically serves the same function(s) as a drumset would, just with less oomph.

I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..

This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..

darrenn · Post by **darrenn** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:31 pm

Modern music's reliance on 4/4 time and basic drum rhythms comes from the simple fact our bodies are symetrical and have two arms, two legs and two hands (amongst other things). Everything needs to be divisable by two - dancing evolved from walking that also is in 4/4 (or 2/2) time.
Darren

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:36 pm

darrenn wrote:Modern music's reliance on 4/4 time and basic drum rhythms comes from the simple fact our bodies are symetrical and have two arms, two legs and two hands (amongst other things). Everything needs to be divisable by two - dancing evolved from walking that also is in 4/4 (or 2/2) time.
Darren

How does that square with the fact that the majority of classical dance music is in 3/4?

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:39 pm

Not to mention the 12/8 west african roots of much salsa and jazz.

kaden · Post by **kaden** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:37 pm

If God had meant us to play in 10/8, She would have given us 10 fingers and 10 toes.

Oh...

right...

K

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:50 pm

nuffink wrote:
darrenn wrote:Modern music's reliance on 4/4 time and basic drum rhythms comes from the simple fact our bodies are symetrical and have two arms, two legs and two hands (amongst other things). Everything needs to be divisable by two - dancing evolved from walking that also is in 4/4 (or 2/2) time.
Darren
How does that square with the fact that the majority of classical dance music is in 3/4?

Or that Hindustani music doesn't even use Western styled meters at all, but counts (talas) of beats that alternate...5 of the most common of these use odd numbered beats:

dadra - six counts: 3 + 3
rupak - seven counts: 3 + 2 + 2
jhaptal - ten counts: 2 + 3 + 2 + 3
dhamar - fourteen counts: 5 + 2 + 3 + 4
dipchandi - fourteen counts: 3 + 4 + 3 + 4

POOF! Another theory bites the dust!

videzyrah · Post by **videzyrah** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:55 pm

pheeleep wrote:even without a drummer, in typical music you often end up with hand clapping, tambourine shaking, etc. that basically serves the same function(s) as a drumset would, just with less oomph.

I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..

This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..

cool. yeah, working with a different 'pallettes' of sounds can always help make things more interesting.

i guess the point of my original post was simply that I don't think the rise of the drumkit is necessarily responsible for shaping the mass conscious' sense of rhythm, and the prevalent expressions thereof: whereas even when other forms of percussion find there way into the mix the rythmic strucures (boom-bap boom-bap) tend to remain similar for most music other than classical, jazz and you ambient freaks' stuff.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:58 pm

There is all sorts of east european folk music with fives and sevens and nines.

Check out Bartoks dances in Bulgarian Rhythm.

Hell, check out Bartok, period.

darrenn · Post by **darrenn** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:11 pm

It was just a theory behind why "modern" "popular" music has such simple rythms. I would not consider Hindustani, Classical dance music or East european folk music as "modern popular music"
Sure there are other sigs and rythms and more complex dances than the pogo or funky chicken but our symetry has a lot to do with even number time sigs and how popular music is designed for people to dance to en masse on a Saturday night.
Darren

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:17 pm

are you related to quincy?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:22 pm

pheeleep wrote:even without a drummer, in typical music you often end up with hand clapping, tambourine shaking, etc. that basically serves the same function(s) as a drumset would, just with less oomph.

I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..

This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..

Premiers symtoms is a great album. There is some drum loops employed on that one, but I hear what yer talking about. One thing about "Air" is that the drums are usually way back in the mix and they are not really emphasized- at least in their early stuff, lately, they have been really bringing the drums forward, and I think their music has suffered somewhat...(coincidence????? maybe)

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:24 pm

darrenn wrote:It was just a theory behind why "modern" "popular" music has such simple rythms.

Seems unlikely to me that we only woke up to the fact that we have symmetrical bodies in "modern" times. Why is divisible by two suddenly all the rage? Was it only after quantum mechanics was born that dancers looked around and said, "Hey, two legs. Two arms. Two hands. Two feet! We can make this work!"

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:30 pm

some of the basic Tabla rhymts are great as well. Although they will play a 1,2 and 4, the upbeat movements makes it sound more swinging... or 'swingy' like the Brazilians say

The curse of the drum set in modern music