Question about Multi-Band Compression and the EAG

[steakmusic]

I love using the EAG, but I've recently been having a really tough time fitting it in a particular mix (particularly next to the accompanying DI bass in the track). The song itself is a low-key, semi-acoustic sounding pop-folky commercial track.

I spent hours and hours tweaking both the bass and the Orange Tree acoustic with EQ, but after not finding success, I started using a tool with which I don't have too much experience, Waves' C4 Multi-Band compressor. I feel as if I've actually achieved a degree of success by identifying and isolating the 'problem' frequency bands (the 60-300 Hz area is super active) and clamping down some of that boxiness and woofiness to get a more clean sounding strum that doesn't interfere with the bass track.

However I've heard many times that compression is something that should be avoided at all costs when it comes to acoustic guitars, and I don't want the acoustic to sound too unnatural.

I'm curious if Greg or anyone else here has used multi-band compression on acoustic guitar tracks, and if so, if they have any general tips or advice on optimizing its use.

TL;DR: Multi-band compression on acoustic guitar, yea or nay?

Thanks!

[Gregjazz]

Compressor on acoustic guitar is fine--but as with any instrument you just have to figure out how to use it to accent the instrument's strengths and minimize the instrument's weaknesses.

So considering an acoustic guitar playing alongside an electric bass guitar, you can use some compressor to give it a more pop-like, produced tone. However, since the guitar already includes its share of bass frequency content, you can use a multi-band compressor to exclude the bass frequencies from the compressor. After all, that's a frequency range you don't really want to be "flattened out" along with the rest of the guitar tone. Otherwise it will tend to interfere with the bass guitar.

In terms of separation/balance, here are a few general mixing concepts to consider:

- First and foremost volume--for balance, put the instruments at an equal-sounding volume.

- Panning / stereo width. Panning the instruments opposite each other is a good way to create separation. You can also use stereo width to create a distinction between instruments. For example, the bass is usually mono, centered. Widen the guitar's stereo field to help separate the instruments.

- Frequency separation. A lot of people think about separation in terms of the pitch of the instrument. That's kinda a simplification of frequency content. You can have two people sing the same note, and if there's a big timbral difference in their voices, the notes will have separation. Formant shifting aside, you can use EQ to help separate the instruments--in the example of an acoustic guitar and bass, decrease the bass frequencies on the guitar using EQ, and decrease the treble frequencies on the bass.

Feel free to post an MP3 sample, I'd be glad to help out.

P.S. This is probably the first time I've seen somebody use "TL;DR" outside of Reddit. Has that become a mainstream now or something?

[steakmusic]

Dude, Greg, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. Can't think of many sample purveyors who would do that. Thanks for the advice!

Yes, I have the DI bass mono and right up the center, and two different printed copies of the same MIDI data on the EAG, which I then split into mono and panned 68 L and 68 R (each sides from different recorded passes, in an attempt to get a subtle difference between the two).

The issue I was up against was the 'boominess" that I think is natural for acoustic guitars, which, when paired with the bass, was causing a big build up of frequencies, especially from the 60-130 Hz range). Simply carving out that range from the Acoustic guitar wasn't cutting it, and multiband compression with the C4 is actually giving me some positive results.

Granted, I am still relatively new at mixing, and I've only been using the C4 for the past 24 hours, so I still likely have a ways to go before I get a satisfactory result.

I'll post an MP3 if I get over my sheepishness of my horrendous commercial music in progress.

Thanks again!

And I don't know if 'TL:DR' is accepted by the interwebs at large, but I am a highly frequent Redditor.

[EvilDragon]

TL;DR, used and abused on 4chan and some other places for years already.

[Gregjazz]

Yeah, it sounds like a multi-band compressor will help out in that case. You can always solo just the bass and guitar track and I can give you more specific pointers.

So I assume you've discovered this sub-Reddit as well? There are a lot of cool folks there.

http://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/

[steakmusic]

Awesome--I didn't know about that sub-reddit!!

In truth, I've been spending WAY too much time over at r/breakingbad (I'm getting totally sucked into that show), but I'm going to be checking back on this audio related sub-reddit regularly now. Love that current top link of FM synthesis through an oscilloscope.

I think I will send an mp3 of just the bass and guitar together for some feedback and critiques, but I'll wait a couple of hours before I finish and send it off (ears/brain are just fried from hearing the chord progression a million times, and my taste/judgement barometer is all fogged up).

[Gregjazz]

Oh yeah, I love that show! I've only seen the first season though, so I have a lot of catching up to do.

[steakmusic]

Oh man, if you love Season 1, you'll be blown away by seasons 2, 3, and the still-ongoing season 4. One Redditor accurately described it as "emotional terrorism."

I've also come to really appreciate David Porter's minimalist approach to scoring the show.

Anyways, here are some examples of what I'm trying to do with this little demo of mine. I've soloed out just the EAG and the Scarbee DI Fender Pre-Bass: http://soundcloud.com/tom-s-6/sets/whol ... omparisons

Track one in the set is simply the guitar and bass without any EQ or dynamics processing. In the second track, I've EQ'd the guitar and bass. In the third and final track, I've added multiband compression to the acoustic guitar, and I've kept the same EQ settings from the prior track on both instruments.

One important note is that in the full version of the song, there's a brushed drum kit, organ, and a light wurlitzer 'solo' towards the end.

At this point, I can hardly tell if I'm making things better or worse--I've basically lost all perspective.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

[steakmusic]

Here's the link to the set, I set it to private to avoid confusion with anyone else checking out my songs: http://soundcloud.com/tom-s-6/sets/whol ... ns/s-aT5gx

[Gregjazz]

Sounds like a pretty good start to me. Nice sequencing, by the way, it sounds great!

Try putting a boost in the 40-60 hz range on the bass (I'm listening to the last example). With a stronger bass, that'll help it mix with the acoustic guitar.

[steakmusic]

Right on!

Thanks for the advice, and thanks so much for taking the time to check it out. I'm getting more comfortable with the multiband the more I use it.

One particular breakthrough I had that others may find useful:

When using Waves' C4 on the EAG, I first felt as if it were somehow mandatory that I use all four bands to control all the different flavors across the frequency spectrum: (1)the ultra sub bassy lows, (2)the muddy, boomy region, (3) the upper mids, then (4) the highs and 'glassy' frequencies.

When I used this approach, starting over and over and over again, each time I would think I was making tremendous improvements only to find that when I A/B'd it against the original sound without the multiband, the original sounded better overall.

When I finally just used the C4 to concentrate on clamping down on a range of frequencies I felt was most over-active/over-dynamic by using only one band, I started to have way more success (at least in my opinion). I set the Q for that band as low as I could to get a band that sloped/rolled off very gently, then stretched that one band to go from 70 Hz all the way up to 982 Hz, leaving all the other bands in C4 bypassed.

This way, I had that one area of the frequency spectrum (still fairly broad) under control, while the rest of the audio could remain unaffected. Perhaps if I kept playing around with a normal 'single' band compressor like Waves' RennComp, I could have still gotten satisfactory results, but I feel as if the selective multiband approach worked for me!

Sorry for the long-winded debriefing, but just wanted to share that in case anyone out there is trying a similar approach!