[SOLVED] End of sample gets clipped

[lmv]

Another approach would be putting your samples in Fabla using Carla (assuming you run Linux). Fabla lets your samples sound without clipping.

Yes, I will try that. I had completely forgotten about Fabla. I just tried it with Tracktion's internal sampler and the samples get cut really really short. There is an "Ignore release" option that fixes this particular problem inside the loop, but not at the end of it.

[whyterabbyt]

Assuming you are looping between those two markers then what you describe is exactly as I would expect.

Indeed. Tracktion is being asked to loop what is inside the loop markers. And that's what it does.

Im not sure why its a problem that that's what it does, its what I'd expect any DAW to do; in fact if I had looped playback set up, and a DAW was playing back something outside the markers, thats when I'd say the DAW was doing something wrong.

What situation is it that requires marker-based looped playback and playback of audio loops of different start points and/or length? Because they're kind of contradictory requirements; one mandates looping at markers, one mandates looping at the sample endpoint.

[pough]

The thing is, you're treating a timeline like it should be an instrument. I certainly wouldn't want audio clips to wrap around in looped sections the way you're expecting them to. Imagine a song-length vocal or guitar track doing that. It would be chaos.

The behaviour you're hoping for comes from instruments. Load your samples into Kontakt, Battery, TAL-Sampler, Poise, Grace, Elecktroid, SR-202, etc and trigger them via MIDI.

[lmv]

Assuming you are looping between those two markers then what you describe is exactly as I would expect.

Indeed. Tracktion is being asked to loop what is inside the loop markers. And that's what it does.

Im not sure why its a problem that that's what it does, its what I'd expect any DAW to do; in fact if I had looped playback set up, and a DAW was playing back something outside the markers, thats when I'd say the DAW was doing something wrong.

What situation is it that requires marker-based looped playback and playback of audio loops of different start points and/or length? Because they're kind of contradictory requirements; one mandates looping at markers, one mandates looping at the sample endpoint.

No, you're being shortsighted.

The sample extends beyond the marker, but it is triggered before the marker. Once it's triggered, it should be played and it should be played in its entirety. Nothing should be triggered after the marker, but once it's triggered, it should do its thing until it's done. If you don't want that, you cut the sample or gate it. It's a lot lot simpler than chip-chopping pieces of the sample and pasting it all over the place because oh, the marker is holy and sacred and must not be overstepped.

Think about it this way:
I want the samples to play until their end, beyond the loop boundary and "bleeding" into the next loop iteration.
You seem to prefer that samples get axed at the loop boundary no matter what, because the power of the marker must not be challenged!

Now, if the application behaves the way I want:
=) I don't need to do anything, it works by default.
=) You'll have to cut the sample so it's shorter, but you still have a simple way: just drag it to another track and use Tracktion's own WAV editor to snip it. Or you can just apply a gate to the sample. The internal sampler has a gate mechanism in vertical bars, combined with the velocity mechanism.



However, if the application behaves the way it already does:
=) You don't need to do anything, it works by default.
=) I have no recourse except chip-chopping and pasting pieces all over the place in complex transition bridges to make up for pieces of samples that the application thinks it should axe/tamper with because yes.

That doesn't make sense. By axing the sample, the program is actually altering the sample I chose, and I never told it to do that. If I wanted that, I would gate or provide another, shorter sample.

If the current way makes sense, then why is there a gate bar anyway? Why not just stick to the grid and we're done with it. And why is there an "Ignore release" option in the sampler? No no no... Just make the sample play it very short, within the strict contraints of the almighty grid and we're done with it, because boundaries are sacred! If it's the end, it's the end, no need for gates or "Ignore release" options. That would make the logic apply across the board.

Instead, Tracktion has decided that samples should not be constrained to time or space limits inside the loop, hence the gate and "Ignore release" options, but if the sample is constrained by the loop marker, meh, that's just the way it is, and you're saying it's correct because that's the way it is.

[lmv]

Imagine a song-length vocal or guitar track doing that. It would be chaos.

If it's song-length, it won't loop. Or have I misinterpreted you?

[whyterabbyt]

No, you're being shortsighted.

No, Im telling you how the timeline works in this, and multiple other DAWs. Your failure to accept that something is not the way you want it to be is your failure, not mine.

The sample extends beyond the marker, but it is triggered before the marker.

So what? The timeline is what's being played. When the end marker is reached, the play position changes to the start marker.

A timeline plays from one point in time and one point in time only.

Once it's triggered, it should be played and it should be played in its entirety.

There's no 'it' being 'triggered' in the first place. This is not a sampler; its a timeline. The audio that is played back is the audio at the playback position. When the playback position changes because of a marker, it does not continue along the timeline as well as follow the marker. Because there's only one playback position.

You're wanting the playback position to be in multiple places at once. It doesnt do that, whether you like it or not. And you're just going to have to accept that because its the same in pretty much every software with a timeline, because that's how a timeline is... a linear progression of events which get played back at the single 'current' point in time, the playback position.

[lmv]

(rude contrarian rubbish that adds nothing to the discussion)

[whyterabbyt]

Imagine a song-length vocal or guitar track doing that. It would be chaos.

If it's song-length, it won't loop

If its in looped playback mode, it will loop, because that's what it does when its in looped playback mode. It doesnt matter if the loop is song length; the length is not what defines whether it loops or not. The 'loop' button is what defines whether it loops or not.

The loop markers define the points on the timeline where looping occurs, defining the timepoint at which the playback position is reset, and what it is reset to. There is only one playback position, and only one set of timeline loop markers. Anything 'under' the playback position gets played, anything not 'under' the playback position will not be played.

[whyterabbyt]

(rude contrarian rubbish that adds nothing to the discussion)

Hmmm, how oddly reminiscent of the multiply-banned poster Bach Rules. He had a major problem accepting simple explanations of the facts as well.

[pough]

Imagine a song-length vocal or guitar track doing that. It would be chaos.

If it's song-length, it won't loop. Or have I misinterpreted you?

If you don't get it, don't worry about it. Just remember this: The timeline does not trigger samples. It plays the audio file in very much the same way that a tape deck will play the audio under the play head. And in the same way that a tape deck will not continue to play a sound beyond when it stops, audio files under the cursor in Tracktion will not continue to play when the cursor is sent back to the start of the loop point.

The timeline does not trigger samples. The triggering of samples is what sample playback instruments do.

As I mentioned before (and you discovered on your own) the Tracktion sampler does a bad job of this. I don't know if it's a feature or a bug, but it does indeed stop playing a triggered sample when looping.

[whyterabbyt]

Imagine a song-length vocal or guitar track doing that. It would be chaos.

If it's song-length, it won't loop. Or have I misinterpreted you?

The timeline does not trigger samples. It plays the audio file in very much the same way that a tape deck will play the audio under the play head. And in the same way that a tape deck will not continue to play a sound beyond when it stops, audio files under the cursor in Tracktion will not continue to play when the cursor is sent back to the start of the loop point.

The timeline does not trigger samples. The triggering of samples is what sample playback instruments do.

Thanks for repeating exactly what Ive just said.

[pough]

Thanks for repeating exactly what Ive just said.

No problem! I thought maybe looping the message might help.

[whyterabbyt]

Thanks for repeating exactly what Ive just said.

No problem! I thought maybe looping the message might help.

Now that was funny.

[lmv]

The timeline does not trigger samples. The triggering of samples is what sample playback instruments do.

As I mentioned before (and you discovered on your own) the Tracktion sampler does a bad job of this. I don't know if it's a feature or a bug, but it does indeed stop playing a triggered sample when looping.

Well, then it's a limitation of Tracker. It offers no way to achieve what I want, which should be quite simple, without making a mess of it. What I want is default in several other DAWs, so it's perfectly reasonable for me to expect it. At least the sampler should do the job correctly.

Thanks for repeating exactly what Ive just said.

No problem! I thought maybe looping the message might help.

I might find your remark funny if, "as I mentioned before," I wasn't trying to achieve something that is a given in several other DAWs, and if we weren't talking about a DAW that is notorious for not having a manual.

whyterabbyt is in my ignore list. Clearly, he/she wasn't interested in helping.

[whyterabbyt]

Well, then it's a limitation of Tracker.

That's Tracktion. And ProTools, and Sonar, and Live, and Reaper and Bitwig and, I'd hazard, pretty much every timeline based DAW out there. Because that is how timelines work.

Funnily enough its also a limitation of Mulab, despite your claim to the contrary elsewhere as an example of one that does it.

It offers no way to achieve what I want, which should be quite simple, without making a mess of it.

What you want is easily achieved if you stop trying to loop the timeline and start looping the samples. The mess is your refusal to accept how timelines work.

What I want is default in several other DAWs

I sincerely doubt it.