Zebra3 Info

[fisherKing]

about every six months, i change my workflow; i replace my main synth plugins with new ones. for me, a way to stay inspired, and challenged. just did that this week (added hive, btw). but zebra2 stays with me, i can't give that one up...it's too good... am hoping Z3 has that same effect on me

[Shiek927]

Building on my earlier post about increasing the ease-of-use as much as updating all the modules, Zebra3 might also benefiting by looking at Omnisphere. Dated at this point, I know, but I believe that synth has a sort of "easy" mode: where you have the option to click and 'look' deeper if you want.

The emphasis on *if* you want.

Zebra3 may also benefit from something like that. As ever, it's important to not simply add in a ton of new OSC FX and filters, but to make sure the simplicity and ease-of-use is just as high. That way, if they want to make fairly standard (but very mix-worthy) dance-patches, they don't have to dig into advanced features if they don't want too. Zebra2, in some sense, is already a step in that direction because you only see what you want and don't have to deal with a cluttered interface.

It's important to keep it that way; consolidating as much onto a single window and giving the important stuff there own space, as done in Zebra Redux or in Hive, will go a long way.

[mutantdog]

Years ago, i really wanted Zebra but couldn't afford it. Now though I'm not too fussed about it as is. Nevertheless i recently picked up a secondhand copy, mainly for the opportunity of a cheap upgrade to Z3. That's right, i have learned nothing from the recent Camel drama!

Initial usage though I have to say honestly, it does seem rather dated now. I know everyone loves it and i'm sure if i give it a bit more of a chance I'll grow to appreciate it, that new Redux GUI will surely help. But with so many top quality synths at my disposal, I'm in no real hurry to explore its potential.

Thing is, having bought and loved Bazille and Hive, i feel u-he have come a long way with making more accessible, intuitive and well-designed instruments. I like the concept of Zebra and i really think that with a significant redesign and an updated approach to its usability (without of course compromising its fundamental nature) it could become The Synth of 2015 if, of course, it arrives that soon.

As u-he's flagship though it urgently needs to be brought in line with the current crop of virtual instruments that, personally i find far more appealing to use.

[ariston]

Initial usage though I have to say honestly, it does seem rather dated now.

Dated? How so?

You haven't even begun to explore Zebra's capabilities, but you sure do have an opinion on it! Great job!

Hey, here's a thought: why not post it on the internet? Opinions posted on the internet have been proven to be "truer" than real life opinions.

[mutantdog]

Alright, admittedly i am making sweeping judgements based upon very little use. But i shall at least try to justify them:

1: The GUI. What can i say? It's too small for modern large monitors and is not up to the visual quality of recent u-he GUIs.
2: The presets. Yes, they sound great but not exactly fitting with the more current standard of presets popular on many synths.
3: The workflow. Okay, i haven't delved that deep into it but it doesn't feel as inviting as other synths i own.

So maybe i came across as a little harsh. Criticising Zebra on KVR is practically heresy, i know. Also, i don't have anything against synths that i consider a bit dated, I use Rapture and Oatmeal a lot.

But first impressions do count for a lot. Zebra is considered to be u-he's flagship product. And even though it is still actively supported with regular updates, it really would benefit from a significant makeover. To a new producer maybe only just discovering u-he through Hive, i'm not sure that Zebra2 is gonna look particularly appealing.

I'm not saying its not a great synth as it is. Just saying that the VST marketplace is different now to when it was released. Zebra3 needs to at least reflect that fact, and i have a lot of confidence that it will.

[Shiek927]

You do realize you can re-size the GUI right?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'visual quality' either. It's very practical once you understand it (and ZebraRedux is even more-so), and not intended to be flashy. As for the presets, I'm not sure what you're listening too, but there are many many sound-banks available in the patch library, both free and commercial, not to mention that Hans Zimmer used Zebra extensively in his movies, including the Dark Knight trilogy. So if you liked those movies...

I mean, surely, you at least played with it a little before coming to your conclusion

[ksandvik]

As for monitor sizes, it's better to optimize for high res laptops as that's where the majority of producers are spending time -- and let that scale up to bigger screens then if needed.

I don't know, old UIs is the least of my worries about SW synths, seems some just want a new look very two years while I'm happy with whatever was designed in the first place, muscle memory kicks in and I don't need to re-learn the UI every time and get confused. I'm more interested in other work flow changes to make it easy to design and use sounds.

[mutantdog]

You do realize you can re-size the GUI right?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'visual quality' either. It's very practical once you understand it (and ZebraRedux is even more-so), and not intended to be flashy.

Re-sizing the GUI isn't really the problem, a standard bigger GUI could fit so much more in. Look at how much is on screen at once in Hive or Bazille. Making Zebra bigger still doesn't change the fact that GUI is too small for a synth so complex. Redux is an improvement and was the first add-on i installed.

As for the presets, I'm not sure what you're listening too, but there are many many sound-banks available in the patch library, both free and commercial, not to mention that Hans Zimmer used Zebra extensively in his movies, including the Dark Knight trilogy. So if you liked those movies...

Not that I'm an EDM/tarnce/brostep producer, but when i refer to the standard sort of presets in modern synths, those are the sort of sounds i'm referring to. Whether those sounds are of any interest to you or me is beside the point. In the context of an example of how Zebra2 initially appears dated, the lack of these sorts of presets is a valid example. I went through a load of the bass patches, most seemed to be lacking in the kind of distortion/delay/reverb effects chain one expects with modern presets. Whether these are the first things you or i turn off when tweaking a preset or not is irrelevant, these are frequent conventions in popular synths nowadays. The absense of such presets is an indication of the time they were made which was a fair while ago. Therefore by that criteria they sound a little dated.

I haven't been through the user library yet, there are so many to choose, and i know i will find many that i will like. I will also really like to delve into the synth and either completely rework existing presets or make my own. Zebra's modular approach interests me a great deal, it might not be modular in the patching outs to all manner of ins way that Bazille is, but I'm not comparing it to Bazille in that sense. I guess Loom's modular architecture is probably closer to this.

I mean, surely, you at least played with it a little before coming to your conclusion

But once again. I'm talking about initial impressions. I'm not such a prick as to make a quick judgement and think i know better than someone who's worked with this synth for years. Your first impressions may be long forgotten, even then what alternatives were around at the time to form the context in which you initially judged this one?

I'm not dissing Zebra, maybe i chose my words badly, but i clearly considered it worth buying even though i'd demoed it several times, not really exploring its potential on any of these occasions. Hell, ZebraCM was my favourite synth for a long time in my poorer days (i would have bought the full version no questions back then had i the funds to).

I posted this in the Zebra3 thread for a reason. And my reason is that a major new update to one of the most well-loved synths in software should be able to stand up against the likes of Dune2 and Serum in the sense of being a modern, accessible next-gen synth capable of great complexity but immediate enough to draw in people beyond the sound-designer userbase that seem to comprise much of Z2's greatest advocates and a disproportionately large part of KVR. How well Zebra3 appeals to new customers will be important, not least in how much money it earns, you lot are gonna be upgrading for $30, new customers will be spending a lot more.

[Spitfire31]

Not that I'm an EDM/tarnce/brostep producer, but when i refer to the standard sort of presets in modern synths, those are the sort of sounds i'm referring to.

But if you want that kind of "modern" presets (which will be yesterday's presets before you can say "Tone2" three times in a row), what's stopping you from getting any of the synths from last year or two?

The beauty of Zebra 2 is that it lends itself to almost any kind of sound and what sold me was Howard's and Hollo's patch banks, that are so playable and different from the boring run-of-the-mill EDM "standard sort of presets" (I'm no programmer, tweaker at the most).

It seems to me that in demanding "the standard sort of presets in moderns synths" you are advocating conformity – the opposite of creativity, wouldn't you say?

Just as an example, it appears that iZotope just shot themselves in the foot when releasing Iris 2, trying to pass it off as one of the mould that you're apparently referring to, not realising that the beauty of Iris 1 is that it's not suited to "the standard sort of presets in moderns synths" but a specialised intrument for discovery of an un-standard kind of sounds.

/Joachim

[Shiek927]

Re-sizing the GUI isn't really the problem, a standard bigger GUI could fit so much more in. Look at how much is on screen at once in Hive or Bazille. Making Zebra bigger still doesn't change the fact that GUI is too small for a synth so complex. Redux is an improvement and was the first add-on i installed.

So your complaint....isn't that there is enough on the screen?

That doesn't really make much sense. The beauty of Zebra is that there is as much on the screen as there needs to be. Load up an OSC, and one appears. Turn it off, and it's gone. You're not going to see a million things that you aren't using.

Now sure, I can understand wanting more to be consolidated on a single page to keep things streamlined; I've praised Redux specifically for this. But even there, you're only going to see what is actually active.

Not that I'm an EDM/tarnce/brostep producer, but when i refer to the standard sort of presets in modern synths, those are the sort of sounds i'm referring to. Whether those sounds are of any interest to you or me is beside the point. In the context of an example of how Zebra2 initially appears dated, the lack of these sorts of presets is a valid example. I went through a load of the bass patches, most seemed to be lacking in the kind of distortion/delay/reverb effects chain one expects with modern presets. Whether these are the first things you or i turn off when tweaking a preset or not is irrelevant, these are frequent conventions in popular synths nowadays. The absense of such presets is an indication of the time they were made which was a fair while ago. Therefore by that criteria they sound a little dated.

Firstly, there's nothing wrong with being into EDM. I don't understand why people in KVR love to turn there nose at dance producers here. It only makes them come off as just as smug as some producers do, for whatever reason.

I have no idea what "standard sorts of presets on modern synths even mean", but apparently it means having effects automatically on some of the factory presets? Is that....really much of an argument?

---

I mean, if you told me that you, flat-out, don't like the sound, than I can hardly disagree with you. Or maybe you just weren't into modular synths. Personally, I'm not using Zebra at the moment and trying to use other simpler synths alongside the veins of Sylenth, Spire, Hive, etc.

Your arguments though seem to stem from this vague notion of new-ness; that it lacks what's considered 'standard' these days, whether in the factory presets not being heavily processed or GUI being totally stuffed. You haven't even brought up the sound-quality yet.

Give yourself more time to play around with it. Try making a song or two with it, go back to your other synths, and see if it will stay. There's nothing stopping you from saving presets with the demo.

[rod_zero]

I like Zebra GUI because it's not skeumorphic and helps with the complexity of the instrument.

What I never really liked is the lower part with all those tabs, is what really makes time consuming to use.

Also modulations are hard to see.

[Shiek927]

I agree entirely which is why I used Redux, which solves that problem in spades.

[ariston]

@mutantdog, it was a good idea to call you out, because you made a few good points when you clarified your initial statement. You reminded me of my first impression, which was, to be honest, "WTF?"

To be fair, I was fairly new to synthesis at the time, and Zebra can *seem* overwhelming to especially beginners. We all have an interest in keeping Zebra alive and well, and if adding a few "modern" (*shiver*) presets to it can contribute to that, why not? Personally, I don't care for the drenched-in-fx-stuff, but I rarely use presets anyway (Zebra HZ is an exception, and a pretty big one).

Once I really "got" Zebra, its workflow became my standard (a few minor niggles aside), and I find most other synths lacking. I like the Redux skin from the look of it, but haven't gotten around to installing it. Might be the way for Urs to go? I hope we'll get to see it this year.

Re: heresy, I think this is mostly a misunderstanding. On the one side you have a synth that obviously inspires a lot of adoration, which is rare. Sadly, such unbridled enthusiasm always tends to generate its opposite, so you'll always have people who won't like it *just because* others like it so much. Then those two sides face off and you've got a holy war. Also see "Omnisphere - god-like or bloated ROMpler?", or "iLok - work of the devil or godsend?"

[mutantdog]

But if you want that kind of "modern" presets (which will be yesterday's presets before you can say "Tone2" three times in a row), what's stopping you from getting any of the synths from last year or two?

Firstly, there's nothing wrong with being into EDM. I don't understand why people in KVR love to turn there nose at dance producers here. It only makes them come off as just as smug as some producers do, for whatever reason.

---

Your arguments though seem to stem from this vague notion of new-ness; that it lacks what's considered 'standard' these days, whether in the factory presets not being heavily processed or GUI being totally stuffed. You haven't even brought up the sound-quality yet.

Well, yes. My argument was based upon me having to justify my statement that upon first impressions it appears a bit dated. And no, EDM snobbery was not my intention, I'm just pointing out that those EDM type sounds are expected from a lot of new users. No doubt Zebra is capable of producing them although no indication of that fact is given from a quick scan through the factory presets. Personally I would turn to Hive or Spire for that sort of sound, but that doesn't mean Zebra shouldn't at least demonstrate its usefulness in this area.

Having not delved deep enough into it, i don't feel qualified to discuss the sound quality so i won't. Likewise I'm in no position to discuss how capable it is as a sound design tool, because i have yet to really experience its potential.

I really am just talking about the first impressions and how it compares in that respect to other newer synths. The GUI need not be stuffed or decorated with fake wires and futuristic panels, just make better use of the available screen space of a modern computer. Redux is a good example of this.

@mutantdog, it was a good idea to call you out, because you made a few good points when you clarified your initial statement. You reminded me of my first impression, which was, to be honest, "WTF?"

Thank you. I admit I expected some hostility when i first posted that and i probably could have chosen my words more carefully. I hope my intentions are clearer now.

This thread consists mainly of experienced Zebra users talking about the sort of improvements they would like to see in a major update. I'm just adding a different perspective.

[lnikj]

Thou hath trespassed onto hallowed ground my son