KVR Audio

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:42 pm

I'm loving my V-Synth but it has one downside so far - although the TimeTrip pad and D-beams are assignable as midi controllers it only has 2 knobs that are assignable to midi - the rest of the knobs use something called NPRN or something like that and I don't even know if they are able to transmit this to the pC (and if so do they use the USB connection or the midi one?). Anyone know if there's a way to use the other knobs to control softsynths? I know some hosts like Sonar apparently can use NPRN but is that to enable it to send messages to the V-Synth or can it be two way and also used to control softsynths etc? Or is there a programme that can translate NPRN to midi?

vonRed · Post by **vonRed** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:30 pm

NRPN is MIDI. I don't know which hosts support it properly, though. It works by using ordinary CCs -- the device sends an NRPN parameter number using CCs 98 & 99. Then it sends the value using CC 6 (and 38 if it's sending 14bit values).

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:05 pm

It can be done, though it's a pain in the ass to translate NRPN to a normal CC because as vonRed said it's transfered as more than one controller. 98=NRPN LSB, 99=NRPN MSB and 6=Value + 38=additional value for 14bit data. Because the value depends on the LSB and MSB most apps get confused if you send more than one controller message at a time. If you can get access to the hex data it's easier but as far as I know you need a midi translator to do that.

I honestly have not even bothered. Sometimes I'll assign CCs in the mod matrix to be able to automate functions from my DAW but I have enough controllers that it isn't worth it to go through the trouble of translating multiple NRPN contols to a individual CCs.

ew · Post by ew » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:05 pm

In Sonar there's an option to intercept or not intercept NRPNs. It's per plugin, and it's in the plugin's properties in the plugin manager (or VST adapter in earlier versions than 6).

ew

Meloday · Post by **Meloday** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:16 pm

Podium handles NRPN...to what extent, i'm not sure....

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:00 pm

ew wrote:In Sonar there's an option to intercept or not intercept NRPNs. It's per plugin, and it's in the plugin's properties in the plugin manager (or VST adapter in earlier versions than 6).

ew

Could you use ACT with it?

mao · Post by **mao** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:40 pm

STOP HERE...

I had this exact problem because my lovely Andromeda transmit only NRPN. I have gone mad for weeks than I solved it in cubaseSX3. I wrote a guide and posted here.
Now I use ALL the 72 knobs of the Andromeda to control every vst I need.

It's easy, do it for a knob and you'll be able to do it with every knob for every vst.
Read all, sorry for my poor english language and mistakes.

I'll paste it down here... remember when I speak about the Andromeda... you use your v-synth..

***********************************************************************************

Here is how to control a vst using the Andromeda as a controller and Cubase SX3:

This is for Cubase SX3 user, I don't know if it's working on previous version.

All the things you need to do is to create a generic remote controller, where NRPN andromeda controllers are routed to the vst. This is a step by step guide... it seems an hell... I writed down everything ... it's all a question of seconds and it's easy.

Please remember i'm using an Italian CubaseSX 3 I hope my translation of the commands are right. If you can correct this guide... well do it for all the A6 users.

Let's start... open cubase, start a new project and load a vst you want to control, let's say for example the MS20 from korg legacy collection.

Now in cubase go in Devices --> Device setup (I hope this is the right name I'm using the Italian version!) and create a new remote controller.

A windows pop up withe the generic remote controller. You can see two tables. The first is where you create and map the andromeda controller (the source) and the second tables is where you choose what the knob has to control (the parameter on the vst).

First of all, see the combo box on down to the right... use the delete to delete every template... and add a new template and rename it MS20. With this combo box you can create a new template for every vst you want to map and then switch from a template to the other with a click using the A6 to control all your vst..

With the new template let's start mapping the Andromeda. Go to the first column (name) of the upper table and type CUTOFF1.
Second column (midi) choose Ctrl-NRPN
Third column (channel) choose 1
Address column. .. here do this… WHILE MOVING the CUTOFF1 knob of the andromeda click LEARN button on CUBASE SX (the last button on the upper right) you will se a number (2432) that's the Cutoff1 knob address.
Max Value column: 4000
Flags column: R,T

Ok now go to the bottom table and now we map the CUTOFF1 command we just created to the MS20 LPF CUTOFF

Name column: choose CUTOFF1 from the drop down menu... yes it's what you created.
Device column: choose MS20 from the drop down menu
Channel column: choose DEVICE
Value/action: from the drop down meno of all the MS20 parameter choose LPF CUTOFF
Flags:,, (nothing)

Well you just mapped the A6 CUTOFF1 to the MS20 LPF CUTOFF.... BUT BEFORE USING IT FOLLOW ME please... we can continue with all the knobs and creating a new template for the PRO53 and so on but I think you want to try if it works !!! so do this:

EXPORT to xml using the EXPORT BUTTON ON THE RIGHT (the second) of the remote controller panel (next to the upper table...)
Name the file A6.xml (welll it's just a name...) but put it into a safe folder and not move the file later.

NOW THE TRICKS... Cubase SX 3 has a little bug creating the xml file with mappings... sometimes it fails on writing the flag so... do this:

Close cubase...

Open the A6.xml file you created.
You will find something like:
<ctrl><name>CUTOFF1</name><stat>2</stat><chan>0</chan><addr>2432</addr><max>4000</max><flags>19</flags></ctrl>
BE SURE THE 19 on the FLAGS tag is there !!! if you see a 3 change it to 19 !!! that's the bug !

Now save...

Now lets create a new model (template) for cubase... just to avoid to load the xml every time...
OPEN CUBASE start a new project and go again to Devices --> Device setup
Choose the remote controller you created... and use the IMPORT button to load your (fixed) A6.xml file
Choose APPLY and OK...
SAVE THE PROJECT AS A MODEL(template). Close the project and start a new project using the template you just saved...
This project will loads the xml so everything you need to do now is:

Load the vst (MS20), choose in cubase Window --> generic remote controller... a new little combo box will be added to your project. You will see a MS20 label on it... but if you have created another template for a PRO53 you will choose what to control using it.

be sure that palying the Andromeda the MS20 is playing... and move the andromeda CUTOFF1... if all is ok you will see the MS20 LPF moving !!!

well seems a lot of things but now... if you want to add all the knobs... you have not to do all from the beggining... simply open the remote controller window and add the knob and export the xml... (and check for the 19 to be everywhere.) It's done... if the new knobs doesn't work try closing the little combo box (window --> generic remote) and open it again... it simply needs a refresh.

Remember you can add several template for all your vst using the same xml file... you will choose the template to use in the little combo box (window --> generic remote)

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:45 pm

I think maybe Bidule can translate but I need to find out which NRPN number is transmitted by each knob - midi learn just does nothing. I have a midi implementation chart for the V-Synth but can't make head nor tail of it but it doesn't seem to have this information as far as I can see.

seamonkey · Post by **seamonkey** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:33 pm

amused I recently picked up a v-synth and I'm lovin it too. Have you tried the Roland forum? A lot of useful v-synth information available from knowledgeable users.
http://forums.rolandclan.info/
good luck

bobbybland · Post by **bobbybland** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:57 pm

Are there any other options for daws like Studio One which have no NRPN support.I'm loving the vsynth, it would be amazing to make this my main controller to control all of my softsynths.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:06 pm

bobbybland wrote:Are there any other options for daws like Studio One which have no NRPN support.I'm loving the vsynth, it would be amazing to make this my main controller to control all of my softsynths.

No I never resolved this. It seems the nrpn's are internal and are not visible even in hosts that support it. However that still leaves the TT Pad, the two D Beams and the 2 assignable knobs but I keep my iPad and Kore by my side for even more control options.

bobbybland · Post by **bobbybland** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:49 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
bobbybland wrote:Are there any other options for daws like Studio One which have no NRPN support.I'm loving the vsynth, it would be amazing to make this my main controller to control all of my softsynths.
No I never resolved this. It seems the nrpn's are internal and are not visible even in hosts that support it. However that still leaves the TT Pad, the two D Beams and the 2 assignable knobs but I keep my iPad and Kore by my side for even more control options.

Right on, I have a zero mk2 sl I think I'll hold on for the softsynths, and like you just assign as needed with the vsynth.This boards too cool. I found a bunch of the 1.5 patches and omg!!!

in sound designer heaven right now lol

thanks for the quick reply

Using V-Synth NPRN to control softsynths