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Magix drop Samplitude dongle...

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

koolkeys
KVRAF
 
16079 posts since 2 Dec, 2003, from Nashville, TN

Postby koolkeys; Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:06 pm

siriusbliss wrote:
Muzik 4 Machines wrote:
siriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys :D

It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!

Greg

p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.


its a combination of the 2 actually, make it 150 or less and i'll accept those limitations, but logic studio costs less and is not limited, cubase costs about the same for the full version, idem for sonar


IF you use only the same basic features in the other hosts, then it's a direct comparison, and possibly worthy of a cost-only comparison.
Samplitude does other things quicker and easier IME than the others, and has very well integrated native plugins and full front-to-back mix/master/burn capabilities that are somewhat distinct from the other hosts. IMO Logic studio is not a direct correlation feature-for-price-wise.

Greg


C'mon man, ONLY basic features compare? You can do things in other hosts that Samplitude can't do as well. And sure, Samplitude may do things they don't. But it goes WAY beyond basic features. And MANY hosts can do front to back, creation to mastering and burning. Samplitude isn't the only host to have the full feature set. Actually, is there a major host that can NOT do every step of the chain?

As for plugins, the download version doesn't even include the full suite. They may be the best in the world, but they don't outnumber or outperform hands-down any other host. Have you seen the stuff added to Sonar lately? Logic? Pretty stellar stuff.

It's one thing to love the program, and it might be faster for you. But let's not try and suggest that a cut down Samplitude is a better value than other hosts in it's price range that aren't limited in any way. It's rather expensive to buy a cut down version when other hosts are not limited in the same range.

Brent
siriusbliss
KVRAF
 
2372 posts since 5 Dec, 2005, from Bay Area, USA

Postby siriusbliss; Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:38 pm

Points taken...
So, OK Magix can ADD 80 instruments and it would be even. :lol:

Seriously, what Magix needs to do is list all the NATIVE plugins such as Advance Dynamics, time-stretch, etc. (that go along with Sascha plugs) that easily add up, and do not have the 8 VST 'limitation' (that can be frozen and/or aux/bus routed anyways), and are not additional add-ons. The comparison list on the website seems out of date.

Magix has 'jamloops' and libraries available. (doubt many people use them).
I never used the jamstudio add-on. Some do. Apparently there's a community out there trading sessions, but I don't use it. But Magix I guess should add it back in. (Any project can already be saved as a template or jam session anyways).

So, for the 'extra' $100 (or whatever) Samplitude has native in-line wav editing (rather then an extra tool), (native) burn to DVD-A, AC3, native record to ogg, flac, mp3, non-volutile editing, shared MIDI/audio tracks, quick-freeze, aux/bus routing, external hardware routing, controllers, objects, etc. and I can work 10x faster workflow.

Gosh, I should check whether or not Audio Quantize is included. I think it is.
And Mainstage is cool, but Samp. already has Remix Agent and some other such native features that isn't even mentioned in their very weak marketing profiles.

I've used Logix, Cubase, SOnar, Nuendo, etc. at other studios (flying over tracks for mixdown in Samplitude usually), and just think that making comparisons based on plugins or tracks is just simply not a direct comparison when you get deeper into the program' feature-sets. Too bad Magix doesn't get this across better.

I UNDERSTAND what you're saying about Magix reducing the price and/or ESPECIALLY Magix needs to identify in more detail what's really included (rather than have to dig for the comparison chart).

Anyways, all points taken, but still IMO not a direct correlation. So, you pay a little extra for hidden or unique native features that Samplitude offers, oh well...

Back to VST's, MIDI loops, jamming programs, etc... :)

Greg
koolkeys
KVRAF
 
16079 posts since 2 Dec, 2003, from Nashville, TN

Postby koolkeys; Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:57 pm

But add-ons aside, suggesting that Samplitude, in a CUT DOWN version, is worth the same price as a FULL version of the competitors, is where the issue is. Add-ons are just that, add-ons. Means NOTHING without core functionality. And not ALL of the add-ons are even included in this package.

If they dropped the price a couple hundred more bucks, great. If they offered the full version at this price, great. However, with the limitations, and at this price, there are better options. YOU may work faster in Samplitude, but I doubt you know all the other hosts deep enough to say that Samplitude contains more. I can speak for Sonar and say that it is MUCH deeper than even I know. I'll never scratch the surface. I do own Audition for editing audio, but for anything that would mostly need to be done, Sonar can do it. It lacks very little in the audio editing department. I only use Audition because it has capabilities that NO host has and can do deeper editing than any host can do. Plus, it beats any host for editing samples.

But regardless, it's great that they dropped the price. It's unfortunate that they had to add stupid limitations to do so. Still a great product, but in the price range I'd rather have a host with no limitations that is just as full-featured.

If I ever moved away from Sonar as my "powerhouse" host(I use Tracktion and Podium for creative reasons), the next host I might choose is Samplitude. Unfortunately, the price is WAY too high. Great host, and as powerful as the competition. But the price just ruins it all.

Brent
User avatar
christianmusicmaker
KVRAF
 
1664 posts since 1 Feb, 2004, from UK

Postby christianmusicmaker; Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:15 am

siriusbliss wrote:Points taken...
So, OK Magix can ADD 80 instruments and it would be even. :lol:


:hihi:

Seriously, what Magix needs to do is list all the NATIVE plugins such as Advance Dynamics, time-stretch, etc. (that go along with Sascha plugs) that easily add up, and do not have the 8 VST 'limitation' (that can be frozen and/or aux/bus routed anyways), and are not additional add-ons. The comparison list on the website seems out of date.


Refreshing their marketing material by having a more detailed look at many aspects of Samplitude would help I agree.

Magix has 'jamloops' and libraries available. (doubt many people use them).
I never used the jamstudio add-on. Some do. Apparently there's a community out there trading sessions, but I don't use it. But Magix I guess should add it back in. (Any project can already be saved as a template or jam session anyways).


A good example of a need for better presentation by Magix there as I have never heard of "Magix Jamloops".

Gosh, I should check whether or not Audio Quantize is included. I think it is.
And Mainstage is cool, but Samp. already has Remix Agent and some other such native features that isn't even mentioned in their very weak marketing profiles.


I remember seeing a staggering list of changes in 10.1 it was an incredibly long list of changes. So there is a sea of features in there...I guess as you say those "weak marketing profiles" need a more relevant update.

It is not an easy job as Magix cannot list everything but they have a tough job on their hands trying to convince people to part with 300 notes for SDLV. I maintain though that SDLV is a very good first step. I also think Samplitude 11 Pro will very likely have a DLV version as well with a some sort of reduction in price.

I think Magix wisely were testing the waters with SDLV and I would think the likes of Sebastian (on the Magix forums) would find the sort of feedback (for and against SDLV)in this thread very useful. Hopefully anyway. :wink:
Oxytoxine
KVRist
 
160 posts since 26 Oct, 2007

Postby Oxytoxine; Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:23 am

guys - i downloaded and installed it.
the program tells me to set my vst folder, but then points me to the site where skins can be chosen... am i blind??

i also have sam 9 SE and ms 2008, there is a rewire/vst etc. page in "options", this seems to be completely missing in sam 10 DE?

thanks
MotorMind
KVRist
 
221 posts since 19 Oct, 2003

Postby MotorMind; Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:49 am

HobbyCore wrote:
siriusbliss wrote:
HobbyCore wrote:If it were on mac, I'd be there in a heartbeat.


Bootcamp.

Greg


I hate windows. It's a steaming pile of shit.

In order to get things working well, you have to go through some trouble, disable half the computer.. for what? Making music every once in a while?)


I use Windows XP and never have any problems whatsoever. I only tweaked a few settings, but it's no biggie.. and Macs work better too for audio if you tweak them a bit.
Kraznet
KVRian
 
700 posts since 11 Jun, 2004, from London

Postby Kraznet; Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:49 am

Oxytoxine wrote:guys - i downloaded and installed it.
the program tells me to set my vst folder, but then points me to the site where skins can be chosen... am i blind??

i also have sam 9 SE and ms 2008, there is a rewire/vst etc. page in "options", this seems to be completely missing in sam 10 DE?

thanks


Press Y and go to Effects > VST/Direct X/Rewire then click on the yellow folder icon at the top and select "Browse VST Folder"

Regards
Kraznet
Hitch
KVRist
 
303 posts since 15 May, 2006

Postby Hitch; Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:50 am

Samplitude needs to get much more aggressive with its marketing. How many people know what's included with it and what it can do? How many people at KVR have seen a magazine tutorial, article or Youtube video where Samplitude was the host? How many have seen memorable adverts for Samp? Not many, I'd guess.

Why isn't Samp plastering adverts at the top of this page? :)

It's not enough to say that Samplitude is professional and comprehensive. Even something as basic as adverts that compare its functions against its competitors' functions would improve sales.
Read reviews of free netlabel/Creative Commons music at Catching The Waves, a most amateurish free music blog. @catchingthewave
sockofgold
KVRAF
 
2272 posts since 5 Aug, 2007

Postby sockofgold; Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:02 am

Hitch wrote:Samplitude needs to get much more aggressive with its marketing. How many people know what's included with it and what it can do? How many people at KVR have seen a magazine tutorial, article or Youtube video where Samplitude was the host? How many have seen memorable adverts for Samp? Not many, I'd guess.

Why isn't Samp plastering adverts at the top of this page? :)

It's not enough to say that Samplitude is professional and comprehensive. Even something as basic as adverts that compare its functions against its competitors' functions would improve sales.


I agree. Trying out the demo, it's pretty sweet, particularly in the MIDI editing department. Although, I must say, its graphic response, for lack of a better phrase, is pretty shoddy. Lots of glitches and slows redraws, etc., the likes of which I have never seen on ANY host. Does anyone else have these graphics issues? Generally speaking, just overall poor performance? Audio/MIDI-wise, it's fine, but the constantly slow, blinking graphics make me sick. It feels like Windows 98.

I am using it on WinXP Pro, with a system that is more than adequate to handle it.
headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:04 am

I must admit that I have always (perhaps wrongly :shrug:) assumed -
+ from MAGIX's stance
+ marketing
+ Samplitude's posh name/branding
+ user feedback, and most of all
+ pricing strategy

...that MAGIX are deliberately trying to portray Samplitude as a rather exclusive product just for professionals in the know. They do very little to promote or explain Samplitude to home musicians like me, to schools, or to general users. We are presumably suppsed to use Music Studio ro whatever it's called, and lieave Samplitude to the hard-core pros.

So to me at least the message communicated is that Samplitude is exclusively an elitist programme for top-notch people, not common plebs like me. I always considered it to be something kinda elitist.

Now adding a download version strikes me as a nod towards Reaper/etc, but without addressing the core image of elitism that the product "enjoys".
Last edited by headquest on Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Xenakios
KVRian
 
704 posts since 9 Sep, 2005, from Oulu, Finland

Postby Xenakios; Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:11 am

headquest wrote:
So far as I can interpret this, the message is that Samplitude is exclusively an elitist programme for top-notch people, not common plebs like me.


So what's Sequoia, then? :lol:
headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:12 am

Xenakios wrote:
headquest wrote:
So far as I can interpret this, the message is that Samplitude is exclusively an elitist programme for top-notch people, not common plebs like me.


So what's Sequoia, then? :lol:


An even more extreem example of the same elitist attitude towards the music community...?
sascha
KVRian
 
866 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from Berlin, Germany

Postby sascha; Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:20 am

headquest wrote:
Xenakios wrote:
headquest wrote:
So far as I can interpret this, the message is that Samplitude is exclusively an elitist programme for top-notch people, not common plebs like me.


So what's Sequoia, then? :lol:


An even more extreem example of the same elitist attitude towards the music community...?


http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/zervos.html
http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/hoskulds.html

Exactly ;)
Sascha Eversmeier
u-he | digitalfishphones | samplitude (past)
headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:29 am

edit below
Last edited by headquest on Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:43 am

... all of which is a perfectly fair market to aim for of course (the elite pro studios), as done by Pro Tools, Nuendo, SAW Studio, etc. But the point is that little me in my little room is not in the same market :wink:

Perhaps with Seqoia as their exclusive flagship product, there is room for Magix to make more effort at demystifying Samplitude and marketing it more effectively to home users, schools, etc? For example, instead of simply claiming (as in those links) that Magix products "sound better", how about justifying those claims and explaining why? Then more people might find it easier to justify the cost. :wink:

But this is really just my own subjective perception of the way Smaplitude/Seqoia are as *brands*. I'm really offering this as market feedback. If Magix want to listen to ordinary musicians like me, well then this is the current perception I personally have.

Persuading me to become a future customer would involve changing that perception considerably, not simply offering a *very* limited download version.
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