KVR Audio

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:39 pm

I've got a Suzuki QChord solely for the "midi strumplate" and chord buttons. Follow that link to see what I mean.

However, the midi data it sends is quite poorly implemented. I've edited the relevant information from an article by Jeff Obee in Electronic Musician magazine.

Jeff Obee in Electronic Musician Magazine wrote:MIDI OVERBOARD The Q Chord receives and transmits MIDI in Omni mode only. It transmits its various parts on 12 separate channels. For instance, the Melody Keyboard is on channel 1, Chord Plus on channels 3 and 4, and the Strumplate on channels 14, 15, and 16.

As noted previously, most Q Chord sections can be turned off, but not drums-so MIDI data is constantly output on channel 10. Strangely, the Q Chord regularly sends MSB, LSB, and Pitch Bend value 64 (the middle, "neutral" position on a pitch wheel) messages on all accompaniment channels, even those that are supposed to be turned off. Presumably this data is intended to reset synth voices on all channels, but when a part is off, it ought to send no data.

To top that off, when you change chords with the buttons, the Q Chord sends unexpected Pitch Bend messages in order to shift sustaining Strumplate notes to the proper pitch. (Remember, the Strumplate triggers chord tones determined by the buttons.) These Pitch Bend messages can make a non-GM synth sound drastically out of tune. Add the three channels for Strumplate output, and you have enough extraneous data to annoy the average sequencer jockey.

With some effort, you can sequence Strumplate parts, even in odd meters. To sequence the Strumplate on its own, I had to turn down the drum part (turning down the Rhythm volume on the Q Chord sends CC 7 messages to the GM module) so I didn't have to listen to it. But I was still forced to remove the superfluous drum, Pitch Bend, and other data recorded to the sequencer.

Jeff Obee is a San Francisco Bay Area-based composer and producer who plays the synthesizer and fretless bass.

What can I use that'll most efficiently filter out all the useless midi data so that the chord buttons and strum plate can be used to play VSTi in my DAW? I use Usine so modularly routing midi data isn't a problem.

Thanks in advance for any help.

If I get it working the way I want I'll post files to help other QChord owners utilize them as a controller for VST instruments.

synthgeek · Post by **synthgeek** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:54 pm

NicFit's midi munger plugin could probably do something for you: http://www.asseca.com/

Outside of vst-land, I know there's at least one midi utlity app that lets you filter and change midi input in a number of ways, it's been a long time since I used it, but it may have been part of Hubis MIDI Loopback.

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:05 pm

I can think of lots of utility apps and midi VSTs that'd do what I need.

I'm just not sure what'd be easiest to set up, nor exactly what I should be filtering out.

The idea of the strumplate being sent on midi channel 14, 15 & 16 and somehow still triggering the chords - I don't get how they implemented that. I do know I should filter out channel 10 (drums) and the entirety of the pitchbend message as the article implies that switching chords does something funny with PB.

I've been fumbling around with zweeger VST to no avail as of yet.
I'll let you know if NicFit's works for me, synthgeek

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:12 pm

dont know what data you want filtering but MidiOx will do it

dougsyo · Post by **dougsyo** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:59 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:dont know what data you want filtering but MidiOx will do it

I was going to say MidiOX+MidiYoke. Feed your MIDI interface into MidiOX and the output of MidiOX into MidiYoke (or Hubi's Loopback or Maple Midi Cable or etc). and on to your sequencer.

To the OP: thanks for that info. I have a QChord, but I've never tried to do MIDI with it, partly because it's pretty-much undocumented.

Doug

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:05 am

MidOx and MidiYoke are needlessly fiddly.
I use Usine, it reports midi messages right on it's main panel.

Also, acousmodules has a great6 midi monitor. I just have bad eyes, and the data flies by too fast. I am great at some things, but this little practical problem eludes me. There's a much easier way, I just don't know it

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:53 am

runagate wrote:I'm just not sure what'd be easiest to set up, nor exactly what I should be filtering out

This is the MIDI channel implementation in the Qchord manual:

MIDI Channel 3 - CHORD PLUS
MIDI Channel 5 - AUTO CHORD 1
MIDI Channel 6- AUTO CHORD 2
MIDI Channel 7- AUTO CHORD 3
MIDI Channel 8- AUTO CHORD 4
MIDI Channel 9 - BASS
MIDI Channel 10- DRUMS
MIDI Channel 14,15,16 - STRUMPLATE

I'd filter out channels 9 and 10, since they're just auto-accompaniment crap. Does auto-chord mean accompaniment or just the output of the chord buttons? I'd filter the pitchbend messages on all channels by limiting their range to only output a value of 64 (unless you can just filter out all pitchbend messages, Bidule I think only lets you limit the range). It means that those reset messages will still get through, but that's it. I'd also drop all incoming CC messages. Best way to narrow it all down to just the good stuff would be to filter out everything and gradually turn stuff back on. Eventually you'll have the exact setup you want.

This is easy to do in Bidule, since it has modules for filtering channels, controllers and pitchbend, but I don't really know how best to do it elsewhere.

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:26 am

shamann... I infered that you must have found a manual and so I finally found it, too.

Wow... I was wondering how in f**k you get dim and aug chords... I'm in heaven!

This is easily the cheesiest manual ever. Very useful though. Thanks!

Lots of functions in there I couldn't figure out how to access...

Looks like if I filter PB on the correct channels I can still use it on the main channel for chords, which is good.

I'll make a Usine VST template that others can load as a preset if I figure it all out.

dougsyo · Post by **dougsyo** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:29 am

runagate wrote:shamann... I infered that you must have found a manual and so I finally found it, too.

Yup, http://www.qchord.net/docs/qchord-manual.pdf

In the early 80's a friend had an Omnichord, the predecessor to the Q-chord. I also have an used autoharp I picked up cheap at Sam Ash (I think I paid under $100 for it). I'd always wanted a Q-chord so I grabbed the manual and checked it out first.

For a few months one of the local Wal-Marts carried them (up in front by the registers, where they'd stick cheap guitars, telescopes, metal detectors etc), but I got mine at a music store that was going out of business - Q-chord, manual, hard case and AC adapter all for cheap.

I was just playing it the other day.

Doug

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 pm

Hehehe it's incredibly funny to play w/o midi filtering.
It just drives the poor VSTi completely insane!
Weird, pitch bent random glitchery.
Such a ridiculous toy prior to VSTs, but very interesting way of playing now in the VST era. I've not monkeyed with it again yet but i should be able to filter all the crap out tonight and hopefully post a demo.

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:56 pm

Oddly, I couldn't figure out how to simply eliminate midi channels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 and keep 3, 14, 15 & 16 and I think I figured out how to filter out just the pitch bend from all channels, but I want to discover which channel the actual physical pitch bend wheel is being sent on, so I can keep that.

I didn't realize you could transpose it's octave up or down one. Or by semitones, too, though I can't understand under what circumstances that'd be helpful, since the buttons are all properly labeled and in alphabetical order...

Finding the extra 100 internal sounds by pressing the Melody Key then F#Maj then the Melody Key once again (and again to get rid of the bass accompaniment) then hitting the voice select up to 99 times and then repeating this each time you want to switch sounds isn't especially fun. Luckily I don't much care for the GM bank it's got, though the drums'n'scratching is hilariously kitschy and would work well in a vurt song.

I still love the strum plate and the ability to audition 7 chord types at the push of a button. 84 chords... makes life so much easier.

Every single other function of the damned thing can simply be eliminated.

I seriously cannot fathom who has bought the add-on "Sound Cards" except maybe on Moonie who plays Beatles songs for some sort of karoke sing-along.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:00 pm

runagate wrote:Oddly, I couldn't figure out how to simply eliminate midi channels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 and keep 3, 14, 15 & 16 and I think I figured out how to filter out just the pitch bend from all channels, but I want to discover which channel the actual physical pitch bend wheel is being sent on, so I can keep that.

What are you using for filtering?

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:02 am

I was trying to use Usine's midi filter module.

Then I tried zweeger VST but realized that sans wifi I couldn't figure it out and needed the manual.

Then I got interested in configuring something else. Lot on my plate atm. Dunno what I'll try next. Certainly not anything but a VST.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:14 am

runagate wrote:Dunno what I'll try next. Certainly not anything but a VST.

Well, I may not be much help then. Bidule is the only thing I use for this kind of stuff, as it makes it all easy. Like so:

But that's an expensive solution for just midi channel filtering. I'd thought Mr. insertpiz might have something appropriate:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192282

But I'm not sure any of those could drop channels in bulk. I'm sure MIDIscripter would do it, that leaves just the simple matter of learning to script it:

http://azertopia.free.fr/Supermidiscripter.html[/img]

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:52 pm

I certainly know about Mulch and wish I had it. I've been lurking without speaking on their yahoo group for years now.

Cool, azertopia made this? Missed that one.

Thanks.
Obviously I am by far the biggest fan of ADopplerEn EVAR!

I discovered something really awesome running the QChord through FireOne:

When you already have the main interface initiated (FireOne) you don't have to reboot your DAW just to plug in an actual midi-cable midi device (QChord)and use it. Oddly everything else I use has USB and I never actually bothered to plug a midi cable into my VX5 or anything like that.

(Oh thank Gaia or whomever - there's actually .pdf documentation in the downloaded archive of SuperMidiScripter)

You rock, Shamann. I'll post the script if I manage to grok it. Scripting = not my way of thinking

Suzuki QChord - help filtering the midi output into my DAW