How does REAPER do it?

[LawrenceF]

As to "quality" I was also talking "feel" and "flow" and "groove" and things, not just the certainly better varying timbres of live instruments being played. I don't hear many sequences that sound (to me) like musicians playing/grooving together.

But back on topic....

How does Reaper do it?

Like Freddie Kruger on crack. It slays everything in it's eyesight.

[ratatosk]

I think there's two separate arguments being presented -- that of the pro vs. amateur spectrum, and that of the all-encompassing composer/artist/performer vs. the multiple-person collaborative.

Certainly I think that amateur musicians are wonderful, since I am one myself, and a world of many "freetime" folks writing and playing music is a beautiful one. This is not dissimilar to how it was in the 19th century around the Western world. I think professionals and amateurs can coexist quite nicely and I don't take issue with one or the other being at the forefront.

For me, the second argument is more interesting, because it's personally very close.

I think I've more begun to feel that the siren song of total control over my work is a death trap. Over the last ten years working alone in my spare moments I've completed precisely three songs, and been happy with only one. I've taken up and become passable at no less than four instruments, and have gotten a little better at one (bass guitar). I think this time was important and I don't regret it -- but it's only been recently that I've admitted to myself that the inside of my head is just a feedback loop, where I revisit the same ideas over and over again, going nowhere. My quest for the next instrument, the next host software, the next inspiration, this always led to the same point where I'd become able to make music, not just play, but I'd just stare at the blank page.

Other people are better at the solo thing than I am, I think. I've finally admitted that I need to work with others, to build on our common strengths and -- most importantly -- give up trying to be perfect. When I trust my musician friends to bring something into my world, to take what I've reached the end of and turn it into something I'm suddenly excited about, I escape this cold feeling of sterility and futility that's been darkening my struggles.

The other issue: Nothing is ever perfect. And to finish something and put it away is almost like killing it, giving up my own vision that was a beautiful cloud of possibilities stretching in a hundred directions. It's sad to do that; it's not unlike raising a child and then finally letting it be whole without you, giving up all the dreams you had for it. Having others help you when you hesitate, that's valuable.

I'm settling somewhere inbetween the Artist and the Band at the moment, working with just one other friend on some ideas; that's a happy medium. I'm curious if you all have taken a similar step, or an opposite step, in your own work..

[dgkenney]

I think there's two separate arguments being presented -- that of the pro vs. amateur spectrum, and that of the all-encompassing composer/artist/performer vs. the multiple-person collaborative.

Certainly I think that amateur musicians are wonderful, since I am one myself, and a world of many "freetime" folks writing and playing music is a beautiful one. This is not dissimilar to how it was in the 19th century around the Western world. I think professionals and amateurs can coexist quite nicely and I don't take issue with one or the other being at the forefront.

For me, the second argument is more interesting, because it's personally very close.

I think I've more begun to feel that the siren song of total control over my work is a death trap. Over the last ten years working alone in my spare moments I've completed precisely three songs, and been happy with only one. I've taken up and become passable at no less than four instruments, and have gotten a little better at one (bass guitar). I think this time was important and I don't regret it -- but it's only been recently that I've admitted to myself that the inside of my head is just a feedback loop, where I revisit the same ideas over and over again, going nowhere. My quest for the next instrument, the next host software, the next inspiration, this always led to the same point where I'd become able to make music, not just play, but I'd just stare at the blank page.

Other people are better at the solo thing than I am, I think. I've finally admitted that I need to work with others, to build on our common strengths and -- most importantly -- give up trying to be perfect. When I trust my musician friends to bring something into my world, to take what I've reached the end of and turn it into something I'm suddenly excited about, I escape this cold feeling of sterility and futility that's been darkening my struggles.

The other issue: Nothing is ever perfect. And to finish something and put it away is almost like killing it, giving up my own vision that was a beautiful cloud of possibilities stretching in a hundred directions. It's sad to do that; it's not unlike raising a child and then finally letting it be whole without you, giving up all the dreams you had for it. Having others help you when you hesitate, that's valuable.

I'm settling somewhere inbetween the Artist and the Band at the moment, working with just one other friend on some ideas; that's a happy medium. I'm curious if you all have taken a similar step, or an opposite step, in your own work..

Wow! You have put down in a sincere and succinct way the exact conclusions I have come to over the last year. At the risk of sounding like I am patting myself on the back (since I agree with your post completely) I think it takes some real soul searching, humility and self appreciation to realize one's strengths and - equally important - weaknesses. Perhaps some can do it all on their own but I know that my talents are magnified when I work with others. Truth is, I have a better time doing it also.


Dan

[eduardo_b]

I think I've more begun to feel that the siren song of total control over my work is a death trap. Over the last ten years working alone in my spare moments I've completed precisely three songs, and been happy with only one.

But perhaps the issue is that while you enjoy audio production, you may not have an inherent ability to create music in the way that you want or envision. This is no different than wanting to be a writer but not having the natural ability for writing. As someone who writes, I find it easy, but for music creation it's far less so. There is no easy answer here. When it comes to music, I am finding involvement working with existing material more natural and interesting than simply trying to make original music. So, self-awareness and discovery are essential, I think.

[LawrenceF]

Wow. You rarely see such a series of logical posts on the Internet.

[dgkenney]

So, speaking of the power of collaboration, found this over at GS:



If they did this with an 8 track, what am I supposed to do with the other 40 tracks in LE



Dan

[Ubiety]

So, speaking of the power of collaboration, found this over at GS:



If they did this with an 8 track, what am I supposed to do with the other 40 tracks in LE



Dan

Excellent!

[LawrenceF]

If they did this with an 8 track, what am I supposed to do with the other 40 tracks in LE
Dan

How about no tracks?

I've seen engineers track jazz bands directly to two-track using an SSL. They would mic the band and do multiple passes of a song and eq or whatever you'd do in a jazz mix and record the live performance mix directly to analog two-track.

It actually sounded pretty good.

No tracks? Lemme see PTLE do that!

Isn't that how garage bands made recordings before home gear became affordable and music had to be perfect?

Besides, the Beatles had great engineers. So did Motown who worked with 3-8-16 tracks way back then.

The original 3 track tape machine (Left) recorded many hits in its day. The first Motown 8 track (middle rack) took over a year to build and install. In those days you couldn't buy an 8 track from the music store

[Astromann]

HAHA...yeah seriously. Reaper this Reaper that...it only got to be where its at because there's a free version. I guarantee if from day one it would have cost a certain amount, it wouldn't be as popular. It's a piece of shit work environment and those who get anything done with it more than likely write self indulgent noise.

Wow!! What incredible insight!
I'm waiting with bated breath to hear one of your obviously masterful pieces of musical work?

[Astromann]

[Astromann]

1. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Perhaps then you could try adopting a little humility when posting to others...TBO...some of your earlier posts are pretty over the top.

[koolkeys]

1. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Perhaps then you could try adopting a little humility when posting to others...TBO...some of your earlier posts are pretty over the top.

Where the heck did this come from?

Am I missing something?

Brent

[Astromann]

[Astromann]

Where the heck did this come from?

Am I missing something?

Brent

Ha ha Sorry mate...yeah I can see this post would be like...WTF?
So to explain that post I responded to was way back in the earlier part of the thread..
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=60
That was before it went into the deep and meaningful and equally off topic discussion on songwriting, arranging, collaborations and whatever else.
The poster "Arkadey" had been pretty much a total wise ass to a fair few posters...for no apparent reason and not much to back it up.
Then he starts going on about God and stuff...so I pointed out that maybe he could be a little bit more humble instead of such a wise ass, if he was a so called "man of god" or whatever he calls himself.
Cheers

[koolkeys]

1. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Perhaps then you could try adopting a little humility when posting to others...TBO...some of your earlier posts are pretty over the top.

Where the heck did this come from?

Am I missing something?

Brent

Ha ha Sorry mate...yeah I can see this post would be like...WTF?
So to explain that post I responded to was way back in the earlier part of the thread...before it went into the deep and meaningful discussion on songwriting, arranging, collaborations and whatever else.
The poster "Arkadey" had been pretty much a total wise ass to a fair few posters...for no apparent reason.
Then he starts going on about God and stuff...so I pointed out that maybe he could be a little bit more humble instead of such a wise ass.
Cheers

So why bring it back up? The last time he posted was on page 7. What purpose is there to bring it back up here? And he's banned, so he can hardly respond or defend himself.

I didn't even read everything he said. I have no idea who he is or even specifically why he was banned. And I'm not discussing the content of his posts even. I know there was religious conversation, but you went back like 15 pages to find that and tried to bring it back up for no apparent reason. I just don't get the purpose.

Brent