KVR Audio

computercontrolled · Post by **computercontrolled** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:58 pm

I fell that my tracks have a lack of warmth...not thin but perhaps not as phat as toher tracks.Im making progressive/tech house, sor i feel my mixes are ok, clean, all sounds can be heard and ive been told to have a really clean sound, but when i compare my tracks to other "commercial" tracks, they lack warmth, not sure if its the right word anyway.

I guess it may be because most tracks get mastered in professional studios.In order to play live of give my tracks to dj's i do my own non-professional mastering.Basically i do some little eq,slight compression(psp oltimer) and limiter (voxengo elephant.

So i would really appreciate some advices.

thepaddocksretreats · Post by **thepaddocksretreats** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:17 pm

You need to quantify for yourself what 'warmth' is.

You need to compare your mix to the commercial track and factually think what is different about the mix, without using words like 'phat' and 'warm' etc.

Warmth is generally in the low mids. so maybe you should look at your arrangements and think what instruments are taking up freqs in the 250Hz / 300Hz type of range. Or the opposite, maybe you're being to harsh in the top end?

adydub · Post by **adydub** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:34 pm

+1 for looking at the low mids.

Other things to consider are reverb - for me one of the things that distinguishes a good reverb is its ability to impart warmth. Delays can also impart warmth if you use a tiny bit of modulation in the delay time and filter a bit of high end.

The other obvious contender is adding some subtle distortion via a tube emulation plug-in or something like PSP's vintage warmer.

After that, it's a case of looking at the source sounds and mix levels.

ninai · Post by **ninai** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:39 pm

tell me if im wrong here but most people want warmth but in fact they mean that their mixes sound "boxy" & "muddy" these freq are ranged in 230-500hz (generally with exceptions) so try to cut out a little around there on your instruments.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:07 pm

Absolutely try this :

1) eat a can of beans
2) wait some
3) start your session
4) have some matches or a lighter ready
5) when you identify a cold sound, drop into Pawanmuktasana, wait for the Spirit of Warmth to to emerge, ignite it with the lighter or a match and watch your session to warm-up.

Absolutely don't forget to give thanks to the Spirit of Warmth afterwards.

Real Grooves Audio · Post by **Real Grooves Audio** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:22 pm

computercontrolled wrote:I fell that my tracks have a lack of warmth...not thin but perhaps not as phat as toher tracks.Im making progressive/tech house, sor i feel my mixes are ok, clean, all sounds can be heard and ive been told to have a really clean sound, but when i compare my tracks to other "commercial" tracks, they lack warmth, not sure if its the right word anyway.

I guess it may be because most tracks get mastered in professional studios.In order to play live of give my tracks to dj's i do my own non-professional mastering.Basically i do some little eq,slight compression(psp oltimer) and limiter (voxengo elephant.

So i would really appreciate some advices.

My advice would be to first take a look at how you are using reverb. Too much applied to your mix will just make it sound muddy. And a low quality reverb will impart articles to your high end, making it crackle and sound tinny.

Regarding the use of synthesized sounds: Adding a decent analog, or "vintage" warmer plug to your individual synth tracks will de-sanitize them and round out the edges nicely.

Then look at your master fx chain, and take a look at the FX applied to your whole mix.
1. REVERB: Some people feel comfortable applying reverb to the whole (final) mix, some steer clear of doing that. It's a personal choice.
2. COMPRESSION: Using something like PSP's Vintage Warmer will go a long way to impart some overall warmth to your tune, and can help balance out your lows, mids and highs. Old Timer is fantastic too.
3. MASTERING EQ: Check out Ozone. It's really good. So good that it might be the only thing you need to get "that" sound that is eluding you without the use of any other compression or eq plug-in.
4. SONIC ENHANCERS: Plugs like BBE Sonic Maximizer can do wonders for a mix, but it needs to be applied sparingly or your mix will sound awful- thin, and really harsh.
5. Use a Brickwall Limiter, and resist the temptation to get your final mix too loud, or hot. A loud/hot (and overly compressed) mix will make your songs sound like garbage, and wear out the listeners ear drums by taking away all of the dynamics you worked hard to capture in your recording.

Hope that helps.

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:38 pm

adydub wrote:+1 for looking at the low mids.

Other things to consider are reverb - for me one of the things that distinguishes a good reverb is its ability to impart warmth. Delays can also impart warmth if you use a tiny bit of modulation in the delay time and filter a bit of high end.

The other obvious contender is adding some subtle distortion via a tube emulation plug-in or something like PSP's vintage warmer.

After that, it's a case of looking at the source sounds and mix levels.

Another +1

Although i do not music in the same vein/genre/style its common knowledge that what a decent valve processor such as a summing mixer (TL Audio FatTracker Or The Fat Bustard Edit: By Thermionic Culture for example) will colour the low-mids in a manner most pleasing. Now im not implying that you go out and buy a valve processor as it is possible to do with gentle processing via the likes of PSP VintageWarmer Or Voxengo's Various plug-ins that mimick non-linear "analogue" like behaviour. Bootsy's plug-ins for free are a very nice set of tools to add that non-linear valve like processing also. I also agree that in the area of frequencies we are talking about can easily become muddy or boxy sounding so proceed with caution or go to extremes and then back off until its sounding sweet to your ears. These DSP non-linear processors are also usually AFAIK programme dependant, So seperating all your sources into stems or groups to process and which not to process may be a decent approach. I am also a big fan of MidSide processing via Brainworx Music's BX Control and BX Solo plug-ins and also Voxengo's MSED. Taking the stems approach a step further you could try having two tracks (two stereo tracks of the same stem/group) running at the same time, One would be a fully collapsed mono or sum track and the other a side or difference track and then you are able to process each seperately which i find offers alot of flexability and affords a much more processing options than working with a dual-mono (Pro Tools) or Stereo Track (Live, Sound-Forge) can come close to and apply this to each stem/group or stereo track that makes up your mix and hopefully the flexability and potential will become clear.

I would also imagine this being ideal for club/dance based music because it allows you to really focus on the mid/sum which so i am told is great because most club systems are mono which means that when you hand your mixes over to a DJ it will really be focused, tight and punchy, whilst those whom listen to your mixes on a stereo hi-fi or headphones will get the same but with added detail via the side/difference which they will be hearing. Anyways enough of me rattling on man, and i hope that some of this will come in useful to you

Nekro/Dean

PS: Some Cutting & Boosting the Frequency areas to taste (with a decent Equalizer plug) that you wish to emphasize/de-emphasize pre-compression with the PSP oldTimer in 'valve' mode will also come in very useful for the job (*I know this one is a very obvious one but i put it in just in case*)

rodgetkfp · Post by **rodgetkfp** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:20 am

My first idea, when I read through your thread
was, that you might have the problem
of cutting too much
in the same
frequency range.
(e.g. you have 1 acoustic-,
1 e-piano and you cut them both
at around 400 as well as the guitar...)
your mix might sound thin then.
There might be 300 other reasons as well.

Greetings,

Rodge

arielgraff · Post by **arielgraff** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:24 am

phlendo pretty much NAILED IT.

But I will say also, post your mix for review, so we can hear what adjustments you might want to make.

computercontrolled · Post by **computercontrolled** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:40 am

Heres one of my tracks id like u to listen to it first, perhaps its not so bad, weel i never meant it was bad i just feel lacks a little mmmm how can i explain it "body" "Warmth" "not phatt enough" this words jus make me laugh..anyway i hope all of u can listen to it, its he final "mastered" version

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9vpgox

computercontrolled · Post by **computercontrolled** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:48 am

By the way i try not to use so many plug ins heres what i use

Eq-Sonalskis,live's eq8 (in hiq mode)

Compressor-Lives built in compressor,density mk2(drums bus) and just got fabfilter pro-c, i forgot psp oldtimer

Limiter-Stillwell event horizon,voxengo elephant (mixing)

Reverb-Lives built in and the ones from ik multimedia

thats it...regarding my mixing tools

Real Grooves Audio · Post by **Real Grooves Audio** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:05 am

computercontrolled wrote:Heres one of my tracks id like u to listen to it first, perhaps its not so bad, weel i never meant it was bad i just feel lacks a little mmmm how can i explain it "body" "Warmth" "not phatt enough" this words jus make me laugh..anyway i hope all of u can listen to it, its he final "mastered" version

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9vpgox

Am I correct in assuming that you didn't record this to tape, and that it's all done within a DAW/Computer setup? It's very, very difficult to get that warm sound in a strictly digital environment.

Right off the bat, you really need to apply some sort of eq that will give you some emulation of analog warmth to the overall mix. Someone earlier mentioned Bootsy's EQ's, and they are FREE and they're GREAT! They will pretty much make any genre of music sound awesome.

I'm also tempted to say that by going back and listening to how other synth artists eq'd their tunes, you will definitely improve your approach to eq'ing synths. I'm thinking of the old school players like early Thomas Dolby, Howard Jones, Vince Clarke, Depeche Mode, Tangerine Dream, Richard Wright (from Pink Floyd) and Jean Michel Jarre. They may be outdated, but the key thing is to listen to how their patches sound. For the most part it's a warmer sound than you hear today, because they understood the subtleties of reverb, eq and the importance of recording to tape.

Good luck.

computercontrolled · Post by **computercontrolled** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:26 am

Thanks so much fo your replies..ive trying (the last hour) with bootsy plug ins (ferric and booteq) and wooooooooow i almost shit in my pants....they really add balls to the tracks, but quite cpu hungry i must say.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:47 am

computercontrolled wrote:anyway i hope all of u can listen to it, its he final "mastered" version

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9vpgox

The kick and bassline are grossly out of balance with the rest of the mix. You need to turn them down significantly, especially the bassline. These two components are eating up all your signal range and giving the impression that your mix has no power, hence the lack of warmth. No amount of compression, EQ, or mastering can substitute for a balanced mix (although sidechain compressing the bass with the kick would help in this case).

The mix actually sounds pretty nice otherwise!

metalifuxx · Post by **metalifuxx** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:57 am

I like to use a colored eq to get the tone I'm after, then apply needed compression which can add a little low mid/mid back in if you have already cut some out, then possibly add lowpass/high pass eq to bracket or set the range of the specific sound/track if it still is not sitting right, and then possibly limiting or tape/tube saturation/distortion if needed to get a nice warm vintage sort of sound. Appropriate levels sent to reverb if the sound needs to sit in the space of the rest of the instruments to further glue things together which can add perceived warmth so sounds don't sound so pointy and piercing, jumping out at your ears. Know if you want that modern pop sound where only a couple elements jump out and the rest is fairly subdued but still heard, or if you want a wall of sound type thing where every element is heard evenly and maybe only one element is foucused on (lead or a vocal).

EQ is pretty important again, and don't solo, always mix according to other elements in the mix. I hear people saying all the time on here, if it is EQed right for the mix, it might sound pretty bad when you solo it, and that means you are getting closer. Start with the right patch and tweak to taste or use a different patch. I don't care how good a patch sounds solo, if it doesn't sound right in the mix, it just isn't going to work. Give each instrument/group their on EQ/frequency range, and sometimes compressing a group/bus of similar sounds works.

So how many times has this subject been brought up and talked about on KVR? Too many times to count, but I always read them to get little tips and opinions, or try a new way to do things. I then show my friend these tips and sometimes his mind is blown by how better his mixes get.

Lack of warmth in my mixes!!