KVR Audio

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:21 pm

brok landers wrote: just asking: where's the problem? just create the drone sound first with the main amp env, once that one is done, create the "ping" sound with an additional env on that respective osc. it's implemented like this in most other synths that offer env's for the osc's directly. and it is implemented like that for a reason:

If the drone has a long attack and it uses the main envelope, the ping could not have a short attack... unless I'm missing something in the way that the envelopes work (I believe they are multiplicative, rather than additive). This is the entire basis for my gripe; I'd love to see it go away.

brok landers wrote: <snipness>

3. the master env is after the filters, while all osc's env's are naturally before the filters. so, in order to control the summary main amp after the filters (which is absoluteley neccessary to have a constant filter input, which is at least providing a feedback limiting on the moog ladder, but also there's the drive/saturator stages themself), you need an amp env that is able to control the amps after the filter ... that's the reason why there is a master env.
in other words: wherever you need a constant drive of the filter that isn't altered by an amp env, the amp env must be after the filters, otherwise the release would change the filter input level, thus the drive would be reduced, as soon as the amp env before the filters wouldn't have full level.

Did. Not. Know. That. Fascinating.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:55 pm

@Madrayken:

Just to clarify a bit about Alchemy:

It is perhaps THE most flexible supersaw creating monster synth ever. You have complete control of each and every oscillators pitch, pan and phase. You can even have quite a lot of control of each individual waveform within the superwave when you set them to identical pitch and pan and then mess with the phase.

Of course none of this is as quick and intuitive as in Helix and it will all sound very different too because of the differences in the sound of the basic wave forms.

So in short, to the original poster:

Just like brok said, each and every synth you mentioned has it's own strengths and none of them can perfectly replace the other.

Cheers!
bManic

szurcio · Post by **szurcio** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:14 pm

bmanic wrote: each and every synth has it's own strengths and none of them can perfectly replace the other.

Seems like a perfect response to all the "help me choose" threads here.

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:19 pm

szurcio wrote:
bmanic wrote: each and every synth has it's own strengths and none of them can perfectly replace the other.
Seems like a perfect response to all the "help me choose" threads here.

Along with...

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:19 pm

Madrayken wrote:>snip<
If the drone has a long attack and it uses the main envelope, the ping could not have a short attack... unless I'm missing something in the way that the envelopes work (I believe they are multiplicative, rather than additive). This is the entire basis for my gripe; I'd love to see it go away. >snip<

of course the drone's attack you create with an osc's direct env, forgot to say that, sorry. what you do is, you use for both osc's an individual amp env. set the drone's slow attack with the osc env and the release of the drone with the main amp env. then set the "ping" osc's amp env with hard attack, decay as you want and release how you see fit. like i said, no problem at all ...

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:22 pm

standalone wrote:
szurcio wrote:
bmanic wrote: each and every synth has it's own strengths and none of them can perfectly replace the other.
Seems like a perfect response to all the "help me choose" threads here.
Along with...

Yeah, but then neither the OP nor I would have heard what Brok and Ben had to say.

Furthermore, I'd rather hear people argue the toss over the various merits of 2 synths than see yet another 'Can someone recommend a piano/orchestral/string VSTi'.

contrary · Post by **contrary** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:26 pm

Great sounding synth ,

very unique , Not agressivley marketed. The GUI does have some small widgets if you have a ( now very common ) high res LCD monitor . ( that's the beauty of scalable GUI like voxegno and Uhe already provide ).

However , the main thing is if you buy it , you get a postcard TX from the dev !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The other thing is there will never be a group buy ( so don't wait for that !!)

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:41 pm

Madrayken wrote:
standalone wrote:
szurcio wrote:
bmanic wrote: each and every synth has it's own strengths and none of them can perfectly replace the other.
Seems like a perfect response to all the "help me choose" threads here.
Along with...

Yeah, but then neither the OP nor I would have heard what Brok and Ben had to say.

If you don't search the forum you are leaving behind tons of moments like this.

Madrayken wrote:
Furthermore, I'd rather hear people argue the toss over the various merits of 2 synths than see yet another 'Can someone recommend a piano/orchestral/string VSTi'.

So "help me choose" threads like you wrote and I quoted. If you think I was posting against this thread, you are wrong.

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:42 pm

bmanic wrote:@Madrayken:

Just to clarify a bit about Alchemy:

It is perhaps THE most flexible supersaw creating monster synth ever. You have complete control of each and every oscillators pitch, pan and phase. You can even have quite a lot of control of each individual waveform within the superwave when you set them to identical pitch and pan and then mess with the phase.

Of course none of this is as quick and intuitive as in Helix and it will all sound very different too because of the differences in the sound of the basic wave forms.

<killswitchclick>

I tried the additive saw thing today with successful results. Big sound. Really big - and not one I'd usually attribute to Alchemy. I had a big old smile on my face when I made a 90 unison supersaw on one osc channel. Then I had to edit the partials. Yipe. :-p

Overall, I still prefer Helix in this regard - as you say - due to speed vs quality of result, but it's made me look at Alchemy a different way. Again.

szurcio · Post by **szurcio** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:54 am

contrary wrote: The other thing is there will never be a group buy ( so don't wait for that !!)

Yes, I know - it's like with Zebra: no group buys and no academic pricing - that's why I have been putting off the purchase. With Zebra, you can at least come across some second-hand licenses here from time to time, not so with Helix... I'm kind of a No-Brainer type of person: I like deals and with full pricing you have to be really sure you need it (no acting on impulse so less shopaholic fun).

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:54 am

szurcio wrote:
contrary wrote: The other thing is there will never be a group buy ( so don't wait for that !!)
Yes, I know - it's like with Zebra: no group buys and no academic pricing - that's why I have been putting off the purchase. With Zebra, you can at least come across some second-hand licenses here from time to time, not so with Helix... I'm kind of a No-Brainer type of person: I like deals and with full pricing you have to be really sure you need it (no acting on impulse so less shopaholic fun).

There is always the dinosaur crossgrade for Zebra

Helix?