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morelia · Post by **morelia** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:28 am

Listening to Def Leppard today and just wondered how others felt about guitarists that hold back. I know this could apply to any musician but for me guitarists are the focus. I know Phil Collen is a pretty awesome guitarist and it is a bit frustrating listening to him because there seems so little of that comes through in his recorded music. In some cases the tension is good, like listening to a basic riff by UFO and then this crazy solo comes along.

Anyway, just wondered how others perceive this and maybe which other guitarists might do some of the same.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:51 am

Vivian Campbell is one of the best guitarists in the word. Thought again, you'd never notice with Def Lep'. He's been touring this year with Thin Lizzy. The guy is phenominal.

I love great guitarists. Lizzy being my fav' Band but I don't like widdlers. People who wank the fretboard for no good reason.

All of the guitarists I like most are the ones who realise they're in a Band, and that it's the contribution from every member of that Band that fills the frequency spectrum etc.

Def lep literally can't do what they did on their first two Albums anymore. Their drummer is handicapped.

morelia · Post by **morelia** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:01 am

I don't like the fretboard wanking either. But Def Leppard guitar work seems so simple and even the solos have nothing much to most of them. I just found today listening to it that I was sort of wanting for a killer riff or solo that never really came. Still love the album though. I also wondered which other guitarists I might have overlooked for the same reason of never hearing their potential on a recording.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:08 am

A lot of these guys are professionals full stop. They have a gig and just stick to doing what they're contracted to do.

An example of a guitarist holding back, that was actually brilliant would be SRV (Stevie Ray Vaughan). If you only ever heard him with Bowie you'd say he was competent but that guy was a monster when he played as 'SRV and Double Trouble'.

morelia · Post by **morelia** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:27 am

Aloysius wrote:A lot of these guys are professionals full stop. They have a gig and just stick to doing what they're contracted to do.

An example of a guitarist holding back, that was actually brilliant would be SRV (Stevie Ray Vaughan). If you only ever heard him with Bowie you'd say he was competent but that guy was a monster when he played as 'SRV and Double Trouble'.

Funny you mention SRV because I had no idea he was involved with Bowie. Only ever known the monster

terriandralph · Post by **terriandralph** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:01 am

I 'm sure I don't recall the details correctly, but isn't there a story how Eddie Van Halen was watching Neal Schon practice before a gig and was amazed at how well he could play? As I remember, Eddie Van Halen asked Neal Schon why he didn't play like that during the gig, and Neal Schon responded that Journey's music didn't require that kind of playing.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:34 pm

Never been a big fan of Def Leppard other than one or two very early songs, but I don't think that solos would really make much difference to the type of music they play.

There are tons of guitarists who I've never heard play a solo, but I'm sure they're capable of it. I guess it depends on whether the music needs it or not.

DF2R · Post by **DF2R** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:00 pm

morelia wrote:Funny you mention SRV because I had no idea he was involved with Bowie. Only ever known the monster

He's on the Let's Dance album for a bit if you want to check it out. From memory, I think the title track, maybe another song or so.

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:06 pm

It's like your grade-school music teacher always told you: the RESTS are just as important as the NOTES.

Duke Ellington was known for his 'economy' of notes. But every one that he did play was a well-placed gem.

If the band dynamic wasn't different than the solo artist experience, no one would ever feel the need to do solo projects. True or not (I've heard it too) the Neil Schon story is very instructive.

Cheers
-B

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:16 pm

Hair metal doesn't seem to be lacking guitarists who do NOT hold back, so why focus on the ones who do, if that's your thing?

GermanFafian · Post by **GermanFafian** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:22 pm

Some of Viv Campbell's best guitar work is in DIO's "Holy Diver" but only because that's what Dio hired him to do.

Two great players who holds back a lot are lindsey buckingham on Fleetwood Ma and Andy Taylor. Both very accomplished guitar players that go with what's good for the song.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Aloysius, my best frind is a huge Thin Lizzy fan..he called a month or so ago telling me he was standing in line to see that show and it was a free show. The next day he was gushing over it.

BERFAB, I watched the making of Dark Side of the Moon on Netflix a few weeks ago and that was similar to what they said and I took it to heart myself...'nothing' inserted in the right places really creates the feel IMHO.

Germ, I love Holy Diver and The Last in Line...I saw the Last in Line tour and it was so perfect I wondered if it were real. A funny thing about Holy Diver, Campbell actually only used a Les Paul on that and for one song (if memory serves me correctly 'Invisible') he installed a Bigsby on it but once again If I remember correctly it was his first whammy ever.

Campbell's work in Dio is what led me to discover Gary Moore as he was one of Campbells biggest influences (according to interviews I read then).

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:11 pm

Hink wrote: BERFAB, I watched the making of Dark Side of the Moon on Netflix a few weeks ago and that was similar to what they said and I took it to heart myself...'nothing' inserted in the right places really creates the feel IMHO.

OT, but I picked up that DVD at Best Buy for a couple of bucks awhile back. Great disc. Especially when you get to see a bit of Alan Parsons' process.

The big standout to me was Waters (IIRC) playing the signature bass lick for Money on an acoustic guitar along with the blues progression which he based it on. And then watching it transform into the art rock tune that we now all know. Fantastic.

Cheers
-B

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:30 pm

BERFAB wrote:
Hink wrote: BERFAB, I watched the making of Dark Side of the Moon on Netflix a few weeks ago and that was similar to what they said and I took it to heart myself...'nothing' inserted in the right places really creates the feel IMHO.
OT, but I picked up that DVD at Best Buy for a couple of bucks awhile back. Great disc. Especially when you get to see a bit of Alan Parsons' process.

The big standout to me was Waters (IIRC) playing the signature bass lick for Money on an acoustic guitar along with the blues progression which he based it on. And then watching it transform into the art rock tune that we now all know. Fantastic.

Cheers
-B

also the time signature change in Money was interesting as well

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:34 pm

Hink wrote:
BERFAB wrote:
Hink wrote: BERFAB, I watched the making of Dark Side of the Moon on Netflix a few weeks ago and that was similar to what they said and I took it to heart myself...'nothing' inserted in the right places really creates the feel IMHO.
OT, but I picked up that DVD at Best Buy for a couple of bucks awhile back. Great disc. Especially when you get to see a bit of Alan Parsons' process.

The big standout to me was Waters (IIRC) playing the signature bass lick for Money on an acoustic guitar along with the blues progression which he based it on. And then watching it transform into the art rock tune that we now all know. Fantastic.

Cheers
-B
also the time signature change in Money was interesting as well

I seem to remember an interview from years back where one of the band said that the time signature change was in there to make it easier for the sax player to play his parts.

Guitarists that hold back