Receptor's new best friend ...
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi everyone,
We all know the limitations of trying to drive receptor from multiple keyboards -
You either need to:
1.) Use a single USB keyboard, and a Midi Keyboard
2.) Use an external Midi-Merger and multiple Midi keyboards merged
3.) Daisy chain multiple Midi Keyboards
Of course [2] and [3] are faced with Midi Latency issues, and don't take advantage of self-powering (like USB).
Now there is a new option, and it is called "iConnectMidi"
http://www.iconnectmidi.com/?q=specs
This device was primarily intended to give USB keyboard access to 'i' devices (like iPhones and iPads), however it also works standalone.
The important thing here is that iConnectMidi knows how to combine multiple USB sources. Specifically, you can connect 7 USB-Midi instruments to a hub (any cheap multiport hub, or even a powered hub), and downstream the hub's uplink port to the iConnectMidi, which merges the USB signals into a single (16 channel) Midi Stream.
For my setup, I connect a single Midi cable from the iConnectMidi to the Receptor, and viola - I now have 4 USB controllers hooked up to a Receptor.
The iConnectMidi has multiple Midi ports, so you could even use it to merge MIDI inputs from a few (non-USB) MIDI controllers as well.
I think this might be a 'missing link' from Receptor HW that we have been waiting for.
Regards,
Kevin L
We all know the limitations of trying to drive receptor from multiple keyboards -
You either need to:
1.) Use a single USB keyboard, and a Midi Keyboard
2.) Use an external Midi-Merger and multiple Midi keyboards merged
3.) Daisy chain multiple Midi Keyboards
Of course [2] and [3] are faced with Midi Latency issues, and don't take advantage of self-powering (like USB).
Now there is a new option, and it is called "iConnectMidi"
http://www.iconnectmidi.com/?q=specs
This device was primarily intended to give USB keyboard access to 'i' devices (like iPhones and iPads), however it also works standalone.
The important thing here is that iConnectMidi knows how to combine multiple USB sources. Specifically, you can connect 7 USB-Midi instruments to a hub (any cheap multiport hub, or even a powered hub), and downstream the hub's uplink port to the iConnectMidi, which merges the USB signals into a single (16 channel) Midi Stream.
For my setup, I connect a single Midi cable from the iConnectMidi to the Receptor, and viola - I now have 4 USB controllers hooked up to a Receptor.
The iConnectMidi has multiple Midi ports, so you could even use it to merge MIDI inputs from a few (non-USB) MIDI controllers as well.
I think this might be a 'missing link' from Receptor HW that we have been waiting for.
Regards,
Kevin L
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Robert Karasek Robert Karasek https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=42885
- KVRist
- 308 posts since 1 Oct, 2004 from Germany
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
I second that big time... great find Kevin, and I know several people who will be very pleased to hear that you've discovered such a device!batgab wrote:Nice, Kevin!
One question though: how does it do with hot plugging USB devices? Do you have to boot with everything connected first (I would imagine you would, but it might be smart enough to manage hot plugging USB devices...)
And does it work with the iLok too?
Nice find!
Bryan
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Bryan,
I received my iConnectMidi yesterday, and played around a bit with the USB (up) connections to a computer. I couldn't quite get this to talk with the Receptor properly, so I opted to connect the MIDI out from the iConnectMidi to the Receptor MIDI in. This avoids any hot plugging issues for the Receptor. The iConnectMidi itself is able to handle hot plugging USB devices into it fairly well (though a few times, I did see spurious 'note-on's being sent on other channels when plugging in a new USB device).
Overall, I'd say that hot plugging works well - devices are recognized and powered correctly, but I'd be a bit hesitant to do it in the middle of the performance.
I haven't tried plugging an iLok into it yet. Given that I'm not using the USB (up) into Receptor, I doubt that would work. In any case, Receptor doesn't seem to have a problem with iLok and (something else) using USB, so I'd simply keep my iLok plug on a local USB port.
Regards,
Kevin
I received my iConnectMidi yesterday, and played around a bit with the USB (up) connections to a computer. I couldn't quite get this to talk with the Receptor properly, so I opted to connect the MIDI out from the iConnectMidi to the Receptor MIDI in. This avoids any hot plugging issues for the Receptor. The iConnectMidi itself is able to handle hot plugging USB devices into it fairly well (though a few times, I did see spurious 'note-on's being sent on other channels when plugging in a new USB device).
Overall, I'd say that hot plugging works well - devices are recognized and powered correctly, but I'd be a bit hesitant to do it in the middle of the performance.
I haven't tried plugging an iLok into it yet. Given that I'm not using the USB (up) into Receptor, I doubt that would work. In any case, Receptor doesn't seem to have a problem with iLok and (something else) using USB, so I'd simply keep my iLok plug on a local USB port.
Regards,
Kevin
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi again,
My connection description might not be absolutely clear, so let me try a picture:
One nice thing about this layout is that you can use a single long USB cord from the hub to the iConnectMidi, such that all your controllers can be summed up on your performance area, and your Receptor can be connected with the iConnectMidi off somewhere else.
Hope this helps,
Kevin
My connection description might not be absolutely clear, so let me try a picture:
Code: Select all
Keybd 1 USB >---->|--------|
Keybd 2 USB >---->|Powered |
Keybd 3 USB >---->| USB | >---> iConnectMidi >----> Receptor
Keybd 4 USB >---->| Hub | (USB In) (Midi Out) (Midi In)
Keybd 5 USB >---->|--------|
(USB in ports) (USB uplink)
Hope this helps,
Kevin
Last edited by looneytunes on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
That is very helpful, thanks... and very very cool indeed!
And forgive me... of course the iLok is not going to work over MIDI...silly me.
B
And forgive me... of course the iLok is not going to work over MIDI...silly me.
B
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- KVRist
- 103 posts since 10 Jan, 2007
Do you get any noticeable delay while using this setup? I do not understand why this system would get less delay than a good midi merger. I use a Midi solutions merger. This merger has almost zero delay, except for when two notes are exactly on the same time. In that case, the data needs to be put on one midi line thus one of the notes needs to be delayed. This applies also for your setup.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Fedde,
No - I don't see noticeable delays. From my perception, the key note-ons are just as fast (and without latency) as a direct Midi connected keyboard to Receptor.
Just to clarify my statement above, the most perceptable latencies are typically incurred from multiple serial hops (ie. daisy chaining multiple devices). I've noticed delays when doing this before (especially when trying to play a Piano emulation) - so I try to avoid serializing multiple instruments.
I have the same Midi Merger, and have used it with my Receptor previously. Only downsides I noticed to it were that it was limited to the number of ports, and I still needed to externally power any keyboards I was using.
Regarding the delays - I would imagine the 'internal' delays to happen anytime 'any' two signals arrive simultaneously (not just note-ons, could also be controller data).
I understand your argument about how a 'merger' incurrs delay when 2 events arrive simultaneously. I think the internal speeds at which a merger device operates, and the speed of the protocol to and from the device typically determine the amount of latency. USB does operate at a much higher protocol speed than MIDI, so the potential is there for faster processing of 2 simultaneous events. USB is typically subject to higher jitter, however, and some processing speed may be lost to timestamp events and deal with jitter (this seems to be what happens on USB/computer interfaces).
Take what you will from this. For me, I find the biggest benefits to be powered USB connections, more of them, and no daisy chaining.
Hope this helps,
Kevin L
No - I don't see noticeable delays. From my perception, the key note-ons are just as fast (and without latency) as a direct Midi connected keyboard to Receptor.
Just to clarify my statement above, the most perceptable latencies are typically incurred from multiple serial hops (ie. daisy chaining multiple devices). I've noticed delays when doing this before (especially when trying to play a Piano emulation) - so I try to avoid serializing multiple instruments.
I have the same Midi Merger, and have used it with my Receptor previously. Only downsides I noticed to it were that it was limited to the number of ports, and I still needed to externally power any keyboards I was using.
Regarding the delays - I would imagine the 'internal' delays to happen anytime 'any' two signals arrive simultaneously (not just note-ons, could also be controller data).
I understand your argument about how a 'merger' incurrs delay when 2 events arrive simultaneously. I think the internal speeds at which a merger device operates, and the speed of the protocol to and from the device typically determine the amount of latency. USB does operate at a much higher protocol speed than MIDI, so the potential is there for faster processing of 2 simultaneous events. USB is typically subject to higher jitter, however, and some processing speed may be lost to timestamp events and deal with jitter (this seems to be what happens on USB/computer interfaces).
Take what you will from this. For me, I find the biggest benefits to be powered USB connections, more of them, and no daisy chaining.
Hope this helps,
Kevin L
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 2 Sep, 2011 from Ireland
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Hi Kevin, just got my iconnectmidi today and hooked it up to my receptor just as you have, except I only have two keyboards, an maudio keystation 61 es and an maudio oxygen 49 es. Problem is I only seem to be able to send midi data through the hub from the 61 es, the 49 es wont send data through the hub to the iconnect. Ive tried connecting the hub to my computer and both keys send data to my DAW no problem. Im thinking either the iconnect does not support my hub fully, or the iconnect doesnt support the oxygen 49es. I think the iconnectmidi is based on USB 1.0 and the oxygen 49 es is USB 2.0, maybe thats the problem?looneytunes wrote:
My connection description might not be absolutely clear, so let me try a picture:Code: Select all (#)
Keybd 1 USB >---->|--------| Keybd 2 USB >---->|Powered | Keybd 3 USB >---->| USB | >---> iConnectMidi >----> Receptor Keybd 4 USB >---->| Hub | (USB In) (Midi Out) (Midi In) Keybd 5 USB >---->|--------| (USB in ports) (USB uplink)
Ive emailed iconnectivity to see if they have a list of tested hubs and keys, but can you tell me what keys and what brand hub are you using?
Thanks a million
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hello,
I got an "Inland (powered) 7 port hub" (from Fry's in California - should be available at many PC stores).
I'm not sure what might be causing the issue that you are seeing - but a few things to check:
1.) make sure you are not consuming more power than the hub can handle
With 2 keyboards this shouldn't be an issue, but you may wish to try a powered hub (instead of an unpowered one)
2.) (Shouldn't make a diff) try configuring the 2 keyboards to different Midi channels when powering up.
3.) Try connecting each of the keyboards directly to the iConnectMidi directly (instead of going through the hub). This should probably better determine if the iConnectMidi is getting confused with any particular supported USB protocol
I've used various USB midi controllers with good success. I've only failed with a Yamaha S90 via USB - and I'm not even certain that one uses its USB port for Midi.
Hope this helps,
Kevin
I got an "Inland (powered) 7 port hub" (from Fry's in California - should be available at many PC stores).
I'm not sure what might be causing the issue that you are seeing - but a few things to check:
1.) make sure you are not consuming more power than the hub can handle
With 2 keyboards this shouldn't be an issue, but you may wish to try a powered hub (instead of an unpowered one)
2.) (Shouldn't make a diff) try configuring the 2 keyboards to different Midi channels when powering up.
3.) Try connecting each of the keyboards directly to the iConnectMidi directly (instead of going through the hub). This should probably better determine if the iConnectMidi is getting confused with any particular supported USB protocol
I've used various USB midi controllers with good success. I've only failed with a Yamaha S90 via USB - and I'm not even certain that one uses its USB port for Midi.
Hope this helps,
Kevin
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 2 Sep, 2011 from Ireland
Thanks the response Kevin. I gave the entire set up a thorough testing today, tried every possible combination, factory reset the keyboard a few times, and i'm 100% certain that the issue lies with some sort of compatibility problem between the oxygen 49 es and the iconnect.looneytunes wrote:
1.) make sure you are not consuming more power than the hub can handle
With 2 keyboards this shouldn't be an issue, but you may wish to try a powered hub (instead of an unpowered one)
2.) (Shouldn't make a diff) try configuring the 2 keyboards to different Midi channels when powering up.
3.) Try connecting each of the keyboards directly to the iConnectMidi directly (instead of going through the hub). This should probably better determine if the iConnectMidi is getting confused with any particular supported USB protocol
Ill hopefully get a reply from iconnectivity next week, maybe they can shed some light on it.
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 2 Sep, 2011 from Ireland
I got a reply from iconnect, and there is a connectivity problem with the oxygen 49es. They sent me an update for the iconnectmidi, so if anyone wants it contact them directly.
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 5 Oct, 2011 from Calgary, Canada
all,
Thought we would chime in....firmware update generally available very soon....
1) fixes issue with M-audio Oxygen initialization.
2) adds support for all Yamaha USB MIDI devices
3) clears issue with some controllers sending garbage MIDI events when first plugged into USB.
Hopefully next week release....
iConnectivity
Thought we would chime in....firmware update generally available very soon....
1) fixes issue with M-audio Oxygen initialization.
2) adds support for all Yamaha USB MIDI devices
3) clears issue with some controllers sending garbage MIDI events when first plugged into USB.
Hopefully next week release....
iConnectivity
iConnectivity - Musicians, make your connection...
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Excellent! I have a Yamaha S-90 whose USB wasn't talking right to the iConnectMidi - I hope this works after the update!
By the way - I couldn't find this on your website: Where can one go to find firmware updates (and instructions how to update)?
Thanks,
Kevin L
By the way - I couldn't find this on your website: Where can one go to find firmware updates (and instructions how to update)?
Thanks,
Kevin L