KVR Audio

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:16 pm

What started as a daft reference to the strip they put on Nicolas Cage's throat in Face/Off got me thinking and looking. I was pretty impressed by the TC Helicon voiceworksplus - the harmony generator sounds incredible, but its the modelling I'm most interested in. Basically I'd love to change the timbre of my voice to sounds less dreadful, it would be dead useful for demos. The Helicon has a few options - "breathiness" that makes you sound older or younger. You can hear a bit of digital fizz in it, but it's probably preferable to my normal voice!

I can't find many vsts that do this. I looked at Antares stuff, but the modelling is either for silly effects or just for raising or lowering the overall timbre, which is a little crude. Anyone know of other plugins out there that are worth a trial?

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:20 pm

The thing is you're voice is probably only horrible sounding to you. I think everyone hates their own voice... anyway, I'd shy away from anything other than a little pitch correction. Lean on your quirks... it's all you have that makes you different than the hoards.

kbaccki · Post by **kbaccki** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:23 pm

Maybe you just need a better mic and/or pre? What are you using currently?

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:26 pm

zerocrossing wrote:The thing is you're voice is probably only horrible sounding to you. I think everyone hates their own voice... anyway, I'd shy away from anything other than a little pitch correction. Lean on your quirks... it's all you have that makes you different than the hoards.

Possibly true, but I nevertheless hate it! It's really only to make demos sound more passable anyway, I'm not planning on storming the charts with my vocal chords... frankly, sounding more like the hordes is good...

It was only when I thought about it that I wondered how far the technology had evolved. Timbral IRs have been around a while and are damn clever - just never thought about applying to to voice before.

kbaccki - nope, I just hate my voice plain and simple!

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:29 pm

The IRCAM Tools Trax thingy is really impressive: http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_trax

Cheers
Dennis

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:34 pm

noiseboyuk wrote:
zerocrossing wrote:The thing is you're voice is probably only horrible sounding to you. I think everyone hates their own voice... anyway, I'd shy away from anything other than a little pitch correction. Lean on your quirks... it's all you have that makes you different than the hoards.
Possibly true, but I nevertheless hate it! It's really only to make demos sound more passable anyway, I'm not planning on storming the charts with my vocal chords... frankly, sounding more like the hordes is good...

It was only when I thought about it that I wondered how far the technology had evolved. Timbral IRs have been around a while and are damn clever - just never thought about applying to to voice before.

kbaccki - nope, I just hate my voice plain and simple!

Check out the Antares plugs then. They've got a plug that lets you model a different vocal tract... I think I have it. I forget it's name but it's fun to use on other instruments too.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:46 pm

Thanks guys - both look impressive! The Antares demo of Throat isn't so hot, but found good stuff on youtube, might be very helpful.

kbaccki · Post by **kbaccki** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:54 pm

noiseboyuk wrote:kbaccki - nope, I just hate my voice plain and simple!

OK... well... I offered up a case of GAS, and you declined... suit yerself.

BTW, all the kids today love the robot voice sound... so you can't go wrong there... 2 x

Seriously, you could also play around with a generic engine like IL Harmor... various tweak options there... filter, resynthesis, unison, etc...

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:17 am

ray kurzweil did a demo video for some tech a dozen years ago.. standing in a spotlight and singing like some teenage girl. i was under the impression that it was released but a cursory of the kurzweil site wasn't a help. i don't know if it's out there otherwise.

& i'm working on something similar to vocaloid but synthesis based instead of sampled, with a far more realistic timbre than my current syng2.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:07 pm

Well I demoed Antares Throat and the IRCAM Trax - both good tools, but neither do a convincing enough job to make me sound passable. I think I'm really looking for Face/Off science fiction here, like Match EQ but up a few notches. Capture the timbral characteristics of a good singer, and map that onto a recording of a crap one (me).

It'll sell well if someone ever cracks it...

phreaque · Post by **phreaque** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:14 pm

Usually it is the mic itself, I once tried Shure KSM32 & I surprised how my voice sounded good (although I'm not a singer), but just to tell you, think first about trying some good condenser mics before judging on your voice or your equipment capabilities...

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:59 pm

phreaque wrote:Usually it is the mic itself, I once tried Shure KSM32 & I surprised how my voice sounded good (although I'm not a singer), but just to tell you, think first about trying some good condenser mics before judging on your voice or your equipment capabilities...

It's the voice. Trust me, it's the voice.

cactuseskimo · Post by **cactuseskimo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:26 pm

noiseboyuk wrote:
phreaque wrote:Usually it is the mic itself, I once tried Shure KSM32 & I surprised how my voice sounded good (although I'm not a singer), but just to tell you, think first about trying some good condenser mics before judging on your voice or your equipment capabilities...
It's the voice. Trust me, it's the voice.

Okay, this has gone far enough. You can't start a thread telling us how awful sounding your voice is and then not provide us with an example!!!

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:37 pm

cactuseskimo wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:
phreaque wrote:Usually it is the mic itself, I once tried Shure KSM32 & I surprised how my voice sounded good (although I'm not a singer), but just to tell you, think first about trying some good condenser mics before judging on your voice or your equipment capabilities...
It's the voice. Trust me, it's the voice.
Okay, this has gone far enough. You can't start a thread telling us how awful sounding your voice is and then not provide us with an example!!!

I once caught the last 2 minutes of a radio phone in programme, which was always on issues of some kind - you know the kind of thing, people ring up to discuss various personal problems. It was a legit programme - I'd heard bits before, so I know it wasn't a gag. I swear this is what I heard - "Well, thanks for listening. Sorry we had very few callers this evening... maybe it had something to do with tonight's theme of shyness".

You think?!

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:56 pm

i expect just about the only improvement would be found by a different environment, eg. a couple of years in the countryside where you can belt it out where no one can hear you. unless you have power in your voice, you're not going to sound like a powerful voice, and most of us live in places where attempting to sing, especially anything genuine, is going to subject you to derision and complaints. that's just what society does.

having tiny windows where you can sing with confidence (eg. driving a car) still obfuscates your ability to perform, because having a tiny window of performance isn't conducive to a natural, unstressed action.

there are exercises you can do to improve, eg. formant singing can strengthen your singing voice without being loud enough to disturb the neighbors. otherwise, remember there's probably a decent singer inside who needs a while to get back in practice once a location to do so is secured.

*edit* here's a tip - if you have a passable take, perhaps try boosting it around 3kHz.. i haven't tried this with a vocal take myself so ymmv...

the "singer's formant" is a peak around... high 2k to low 3k.. say 2500k to 3300k present in trained singers voices (also "witches voice") which ~makes the voice carry better in performance et al. i have tried boosting this on a voice synthesizer which does indeed steadily increase the presence and strength. i'm sure it's not going to turn things around magically but it may make a take marginally better

good luck!

Vocal modelling