AQ,
As long as Digital Audio is around ISPs will always be a problem.

We can have a debate about this somewhere else (there's probably a thread we can revive). I need someone to demonstrate them for me on an analog scope, across a range of audio hardware. And then do a blind A-B test. I've seen neither. Just conjecture by people who make a living MAKING problems. (Mastering engineers and those trying to market boutique hardware.)

Any overshoot between samples, the hardware can interpolate either in the analog domain, or by using a greater bit depth than the signal. It's the DIGITAL signal that clips at +/- 0dB, NOT the analog output. Again, these overshoots are by their very definition less than a sample long, so any added harmonics from the clips are going to be very high frequency. Higher than you can hear. And again, in the analog domain so they won't reflect back down into the audible range as alias frequencies.

I know lots of people say otherwise, but I maintain it's a boogeyman.

AQ,
Then where should we start a thread Anyway, yes you are correct that it is the digital side of things clipping and not the analog. But with that being said it is theoretically possible to clip the analog stages as well because technically there is no limit as to how loud an ISP can actually be, at least theoretically. In practice I have no clue.

This is good but the first link doesn't work. But it does a pretty good job of explaining the complications that can stem from having ISPs. Additionally, different DACs handle them differently. A top level one probably will not have an issue, but much lower quality ones may very well experience all sorts of nasty distortions.

I just don't believe in mastering for the worst case playback mechanism. Like anyone using something like that is going to notice or care anyway.

But I don't hear them. And I've tried. Mixed the same project to 0 dB vs -6 dB and compensated for the gain in the analog. I can't tell the difference. But then I'm listening to a $1000 semi-pro audio interface (Edirol UA-1000).

It should be an easy matter to make a test .wav and play it from an iPhone into an analog 'scope to display the overshoot, or lack thereof. Anybody got one?

(EDIT: We are getting a little O.T. on the inter-sample peak issue/myth. Let me try to find an old thread we can dredge up... )

Here's a good place where we can fight about intersample peaks ... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=341003

We now return this thread to the subject of limiters. (Shouldn't this thread be under the Effects board? Not Instruments?)

LoudMax is great for gratis, Aradaz Maximizer is good also along with others already mentioned. I think that this will be really rather damned good when it is ready/released, Free also:

http://vladgsound.wordpress.com/

Certainly worth anybody's time/investigation. Another dude i like alot and like nearly as much as Herbert and Patrick

Best to all

Dean

I thought it odd when I came across this thread that it was in instruments

Back to limiters, you've given me food for thought about Vintage Warmer.
I think i've always thought of it more as a Maximiser than a brick wall limiter,but it is very versatile.

Irrespective of whether ISP clipping is audible or not
(it's an intriguing question though!), various standards
for broadcast material simply mandate that ISPs are below
-1 or -2 dB full scale, so for these applications you'll
need to use an ISP limiter no matter what...

OT: some limiters are quite transparent in limiting peaks
(either digital and/or ISP), while others are better at
'coloring' the sound. So the original question remains:
what do you need the limiter for?

That's because certain old wives set the standards. (Why not just turn it DOWN 1 or 2 dB??? What's the issue?)

Good point.I think now I see that there may well not be a do it all limiter.
Fabfilter Pro-l,Xenon,Barricade and some others are more transparent.
Vintage Warmer is more about adding colour.
That's how I see it,though I have little knowledge compared to AdmiralQuality and your good self.
Maybe my best bet would be to stick with the stock Studio One limiter for now and learn that,then go from there.

why are all these effects threads in instruments? why is nobody moving them?

can't people start threads in their proper sections?

I'll only answer the second question. It's (probably) because no moderator spotted it/them and no one notified a mod. Moved now. Thanks. I'll take a look for the rest of "all these" in a minute.

LoudMax is pretty good and free. http://loudmax.blogspot.com/ Video review of it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN5oUzEZsks[/code]

Please feel free to get FR-LIMIT87 which is a 32/64bit freeware for Windows (VST) and MacOSX (VST & AU).

Otherwise, BW-LIMIT87 is available for €29 (and it is more flexible).
This limiter is known to be very transparent. It has been thought to avoid distortion and digital artefacts...

All the best,
Philippe

LOL, Barricade is so good, way beyond my expectations! Picked it for some extended testing.



I've just came across this guy's Molot compressor a few days back and it's crazy how nice it is... I'm eager to check out the new limiter once it's released!