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Melody criticism/improving, techniques, tips and feedback

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?

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jontah
KVRian
 
702 posts since 31 Oct, 2011, from Sverige

Postby jontah; Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:36 am Melody criticism/improving, techniques, tips and feedback

I've been working with melodic house ALOT lately, analyzing proffessional tracks, how they do, what key they are in, if they're using skips and steps and where they do it, if they start with ionian, Aeolian, Phrygian etc. What motif they have, how they work their way up or down the scale, how much balance they have and how big pitch steps they use..

I've been trying so hard lately, I forgot to upload anything here, so I can get some feedback and tips & trick how to improve the melody writing when it comes to dance music.

What would you guys have done with these 2 melodies for instance?

Melody 1: http://www14.zippyshare.com/v/25820648/file.html (this one is made in F# major Ionian mode, the notes are F#2 F#3 F3 C#3 D#3 B2 G#2 A#2)

Melody 2: http://www25.zippyshare.com/v/89496319/file.html (this one is made in D major Aeolian mode, the notes are C#3 A3 G#3 F#3 E3 E3)

So, then you might wonder "what is my goal?". The answer is pretty simple. I want to be able to make melodies such as Alesso, Dimitri Vangelis & Wyman and ofcourse.. Avicii & nicky romero. I've downloaded TONS of midi files and studied them very much in order to see how they make them.. but still it's really hard! I just can't get a hang of it.

Some references of what I'm trying to achieve:

http://soundcloud.com/dimitrivangelis/d ... wyman-roll @ 1.02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qPmSjT6tAg @ 0.22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTuFigiyqXA @ 2.03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5BxW_Bt_C8 @ 0.30 (I found out that this was written in Aeolian mode)

http://soundcloud.com/djdavewhelan/seba ... itch-crown @ 1.23

So the question is, what do you guys think I need to improve and work on? Also, if you have any ideas of sounds that you think would suit the melodies, please share that too!

Techniques, how do you write your melodies? I know every scale in and out, so that shouldn't be any problem, but even with this knowledge it's hard to get down to making good melodies.

Thanks.
Dipe
KVRer
 
3 posts since 20 Dec, 2010

Postby Dipe; Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:53 pm

+1.

I am having exactly the same Problems like you. I watched a lot of melody tutorial videos etc but never came close to any of these posted melodies! I really Hope that somebody could give me a few tips.
triwel
KVRist
 
67 posts since 1 Jan, 2012

Postby triwel; Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Wondering the same, I have watched tons of tutorials on creating melodies.
But still I my melodies just doesnt sound so good.
VitaminD
Pick Me Pick me!
 
7747 posts since 11 Mar, 2002, from a state of confusion

Postby VitaminD; Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:53 pm

If I told you what I'd do with those melodies then they would no longer be your melodies.. :shrug:

That said.. with melody one I'd have added more groove to it.. more rhythm.. it is way too rigid. It needs flow.. space.

I should also point out I'm not a huge fan of house but do quite a bit with Trance and Chillout.. the basic techniques can be adapted to each.


The commercial examples you provided sound like basic chord progressions and they've added in a rhythmic flow or motif to it and on the lead melody just bounces around the notes used in the chords.

That is what I do.. start with chords, then break the chords into a melody while at the same time adding in a motif to it all.

Your most important task here is to relax... and not make this too difficult.. Your second most important thing to do is stop focusing so much on those top producers and their fantastic tunes. You are you, they are them. You will sound your own. Your third most important thing to do is come up with a fantastic chord progression.. It doesn't have to be super complex. The complexity will come in the melody programming later on and the different layering. Once you have that chord progression, you should be able to use those notes to work on a melody, and work in rhythm and flow.

Also please note (no pun intended :hihi:) it seems legato leads with a lot of sustain are in big use here.. so if you're trying to come up with the great melody (after you have your chords) and you're plonking on a piano (and don't have a great imagination) it might be hard to hear the melody in the context of what you are after. Try it on a legato lead patch or a sound you want to use.
"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best." - Henry Van Dyke
jontah
KVRian
 
702 posts since 31 Oct, 2011, from Sverige

Postby jontah; Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:09 am

VitaminD wrote:If I told you what I'd do with those melodies then they would no longer be your melodies.. :shrug:

That said.. with melody one I'd have added more groove to it.. more rhythm.. it is way too rigid. It needs flow.. space.

I should also point out I'm not a huge fan of house but do quite a bit with Trance and Chillout.. the basic techniques can be adapted to each.


The commercial examples you provided sound like basic chord progressions and they've added in a rhythmic flow or motif to it and on the lead melody just bounces around the notes used in the chords.

That is what I do.. start with chords, then break the chords into a melody while at the same time adding in a motif to it all.

Your most important task here is to relax... and not make this too difficult.. Your second most important thing to do is stop focusing so much on those top producers and their fantastic tunes. You are you, they are them. You will sound your own. Your third most important thing to do is come up with a fantastic chord progression.. It doesn't have to be super complex. The complexity will come in the melody programming later on and the different layering. Once you have that chord progression, you should be able to use those notes to work on a melody, and work in rhythm and flow.

Also please note (no pun intended :hihi:) it seems legato leads with a lot of sustain are in big use here.. so if you're trying to come up with the great melody (after you have your chords) and you're plonking on a piano (and don't have a great imagination) it might be hard to hear the melody in the context of what you are after. Try it on a legato lead patch or a sound you want to use.


Great info!

Although I'm wondering; starting with chords? how do you break up the chords into a melody and why do you do it that way? I suppose you go "outside" of those chords aswell? as long as you're in the same scale, but having them as help I guess?
jontah
KVRian
 
702 posts since 31 Oct, 2011, from Sverige

Postby jontah; Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:25 am

anyone?
User avatar
annode
KVRAF
 
4907 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:21 am

Rules of thumb to go by;
- Melodies very often go down a 4th, or a 5th sometimes, and use a series of notes as if the root was that note a 4th down from your real key root. (thinking major scale notes) But always make your last note fall on the actual key root your in. (this always works. Find variations to this. The last note on the key root resolves the pattern melody. The brain want to hear it resolved before it starts again.)
For example - do the 4th scale 3 times then the forth time end on the key note.
You can do it 8 times, but that last note...well you know now. :)

- The same applies if you go up, a 5th is the usual. Try a 4th as well.
- Also, you can go up a 5th while going down a 4th at the same time.(complimentary melodies) Going up as well as down is a standard melody writing cliche.

Use these hints and you'll always come up with something.
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
My SoundCloud
yips
KVRer
 
1 post since 28 Feb, 2012

Postby yips; Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:05 pm

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

VitaminD wrote:If I told you what I'd do with those melodies then they would no longer be your melodies.. :shrug:

That said.. with melody one I'd have added more groove to it.. more rhythm.. it is way too rigid. It needs flow.. space.

I should also point out I'm not a huge fan of house but do quite a bit with Trance and Chillout.. the basic techniques can be adapted to each.


The commercial examples you provided sound like basic chord progressions and they've added in a rhythmic flow or motif to it and on the lead melody just bounces around the notes used in the chords.

That is what I do.. start with chords, then break the chords into a melody while at the same time adding in a motif to it all.

Your most important task here is to relax... and not make this too difficult.. Your second most important thing to do is stop focusing so much on those top producers and their fantastic tunes. You are you, they are them. You will sound your own. Your third most important thing to do is come up with a fantastic chord progression.. It doesn't have to be super complex. The complexity will come in the melody programming later on and the different layering. Once you have that chord progression, you should be able to use those notes to work on a melody, and work in rhythm and flow.

Also please note (no pun intended :hihi:) it seems legato leads with a lot of sustain are in big use here.. so if you're trying to come up with the great melody (after you have your chords) and you're plonking on a piano (and don't have a great imagination) it might be hard to hear the melody in the context of what you are after. Try it on a legato lead patch or a sound you want to use.


This is a good post!

Put your chords out use your basic melody, be creative in midi, chop it up and move it around.

Also picture your melody (with some minor fixes - being creative) in their arrangement and production and you'll see it'll sound just as good!

Also in a few of those tracks there's a lot of harmonies, which I wouldn't forget!

You wont catch that perfect melody by just thinking, you obviously have all the tools to make them. :)

So don't think all that much (I think we all think too much from time to time) and do instead, feel it, and play around a lot!

Analyzing is good, but when you've analyzed all the melodies, keep it in the back of your head and let your creative half do the job!

Good luck! :hug:

P.S House is not my genre, but I feel your situation, also I know this post is a mess and weird :help:
P.S.S Made something real quick based on your second melody to prove a point, not very good, but hopefully serves the purpose to what I mean! :)

http://www.2shared.com/audio/SjVzZvTC/Midi.html (http://www.2shared.com/audio/SjVzZvTC/Midi.html)

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