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Can you learn to do pro mixing with headphones...?

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

maleaco
KVRist
 
56 posts since 3 Oct, 2011

Postby maleaco; Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:25 pm

After getting a pair of mixing and monitoring headphones, my mixes sound wayyy better overall on all systems since you can tune all frequences with the slightest adjustements
I love women. But I love music more ImageImage
quayquay17
KVRian
 
539 posts since 17 Apr, 2009, from portland oregon

Postby quayquay17; Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:55 pm

+1 for krk ksn8400's

plus the following on the master bus:
Redline monitor
1 db of gain around 100 hz an 1-2 db shaved off with a hi-shelf
something like this:
Image

It's important to remember to turn the stuff off once you're done listening and ready to render, and it's also priceless to keep checking against speakers (good or bad)

That seems to do the trick for me. My mixes have made so much more sense, and I can tell my frequencies apart! :)
I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
camsr
KVRAF
 
4464 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:22 pm

HERES A TIP GUYS:

You can get MORE, BASS, response, from your cans if you follow this simple rule:

Put an EQ on your master BUS.

Use a LOW SHELF filter, and bump it up 6 decibels, from the f3 of your cans, natural low frequency rolloff.

THEN, turn the GAIN DOWN, 6 decibels, because you don't want to blow up your cans.

IT WILL ONLY BE, half volume, but the bass is extended, similar to ported speakers.

THE REASON FOR THIS, is because the cans sit on your ears, and the bass might leak out of your cans.

so now, YOU CAN PRO MIX, with cans, but only if, you crank up the mids as well.

So you have to crank up the mids, and that will be revealing, because they will sound dull, after the bass boost.

Do not blow up your cans. I had to send mine back to the manufacturer for repair. This is because they are made in America.

If you do not know, the f3 of your cans, then you need to check out this really cool website, that I bought my cans from, and they have a little chart, with the frequency response.

http://www.headphone.com/

This is how you extend the LOW FREQUENCIES only one octave down (or less) from the natural rolloff of your cans. :help: MOVE the f3, one octave or less, down, so you can hear the bass.

You make mixes like a PROFESSIONAL this way.
quayquay17
KVRian
 
539 posts since 17 Apr, 2009, from portland oregon

Postby quayquay17; Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:17 am

camsr wrote:HERES A TIP GUYS:...


Yikes!
Sorry I offended you so much. :roll:
I was going to formulate a response to that but I guess it's just a troll. Eh, I'll take a stab at it.

The reason I use EQ on the master is not that i'm an idiot, or believe a response curve religiously, just that in comparison with nice monitors in a good room, I don't get as much "thud" from my headphones. So instead of accidentally overdoing the low end while I mix, I can have a bit of compensation. I'm also never said it's perfect, or that everyone believes it is the "pro" solution. Just sharing my way of making headphones work.

What's your gameplan when mixing on headphones? Sharing your apparently superior knowledge would help everyone more than mocking me. :?
I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
camsr
KVRAF
 
4464 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:03 pm

quayquay17 wrote:
camsr wrote:HERES A TIP GUYS:...


Yikes!
Sorry I offended you so much. :roll:
I was going to formulate a response to that but I guess it's just a troll. Eh, I'll take a stab at it.

The reason I use EQ on the master is not that i'm an idiot, or believe a response curve religiously, just that in comparison with nice monitors in a good room, I don't get as much "thud" from my headphones. So instead of accidentally overdoing the low end while I mix, I can have a bit of compensation. I'm also never said it's perfect, or that everyone believes it is the "pro" solution. Just sharing my way of making headphones work.

What's your gameplan when mixing on headphones? Sharing your apparently superior knowledge would help everyone more than mocking me. :?


Why take offense? Nothing was directed at you...

I use open backs, and the bass response rolls off smoothly. But to get a better contour, I need to boost the lows something akin to the Equal Loudness Contour. But if I don't turn the gain down, I risk damage to the drivers. After this happens, the mids get lost and need to be boosted as well. In this regard, headphones have a very decent sound, worthy of many forms of audio production.
Image
SoundSonicTeam
KVRist
 
96 posts since 20 Feb, 2012, from London

Postby SoundSonicTeam; Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:22 am

I'd say mix on both high end speakers+headphones and budget speakers+headphones. The trick is to remember that most punters out there don't have expensive speaker systems so if you can make your mix sound amazing on rubbish speakers/headphones then you know it'll sound great on everything.
Sound Sonic Team
www.soundsonic.com
Image
User avatar
bduffy
KVRAF
 
19380 posts since 13 Feb, 2003, from Vancouver, Canada

Postby bduffy; Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:12 am

camsr wrote:
quayquay17 wrote:
camsr wrote:HERES A TIP GUYS:...


Yikes!
Sorry I offended you so much. :roll:
I was going to formulate a response to that but I guess it's just a troll. Eh, I'll take a stab at it.

The reason I use EQ on the master is not that i'm an idiot, or believe a response curve religiously, just that in comparison with nice monitors in a good room, I don't get as much "thud" from my headphones. So instead of accidentally overdoing the low end while I mix, I can have a bit of compensation. I'm also never said it's perfect, or that everyone believes it is the "pro" solution. Just sharing my way of making headphones work.

What's your gameplan when mixing on headphones? Sharing your apparently superior knowledge would help everyone more than mocking me. :?


Why take offense? Nothing was directed at you...

I use open backs, and the bass response rolls off smoothly. But to get a better contour, I need to boost the lows something akin to the Equal Loudness Contour. But if I don't turn the gain down, I risk damage to the drivers. After this happens, the mids get lost and need to be boosted as well. In this regard, headphones have a very decent sound, worthy of many forms of audio production.

I think he may have misread all the random ALL-CAPS in your previous post, which I couldn't tell was serious or not until I read your much more eloquent response here.
Image
quayquay17
KVRian
 
539 posts since 17 Apr, 2009, from portland oregon

Postby quayquay17; Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:29 am

camsr wrote:Why take offense? Nothing was directed at you...

I use open backs, and the bass response rolls off smoothly. But to get a better contour, I need to boost the lows something akin to the Equal Loudness Contour. But if I don't turn the gain down, I risk damage to the drivers. After this happens, the mids get lost and need to be boosted as well. In this regard, headphones have a very decent sound, worthy of many forms of audio production.


Sorry then! I guess i'm not accustomed to your methods, I thought I was being had!

:wink:
I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com
Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!)
Loki Fuego
KVRian
 
641 posts since 30 Aug, 2011, from somewhere in universe

Postby Loki Fuego; Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:40 pm

After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.
All that stuff regarding frequency response, spatial positioning, etc. could be easily dealt with, if you know what to look for.
In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
enroe
KVRist
 
475 posts since 18 Mar, 2008, from germany

Postby enroe; Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:21 am

Loki Fuego wrote:After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.


I would recommend to buy very cheap headphones for mixing. I mean headphones that do NOT reveal every detail, but instead give you a coarse overview. You'll get the volume levels and everything else much quicker into the right relation with cheap headphones. Such headphones you'll get for 10$/€ in every supermarket.

For the sound-details, panorama etc of course, you need something like
this:

Loki Fuego wrote:In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.


The Sennheiser HD-650 truly overwhelms you with stereo-width and details. Good for listening and the joy. But bad for the first mix. :wink:
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
Loki Fuego
KVRian
 
641 posts since 30 Aug, 2011, from somewhere in universe

Postby Loki Fuego; Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:03 am

enroe wrote:
Loki Fuego wrote:After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.


I would recommend to buy very cheap headphones for mixing. I mean headphones that do NOT reveal every detail, but instead give you a coarse overview. You'll get the volume levels and everything else much quicker into the right relation with cheap headphones. Such headphones you'll get for 10$/€ in every supermarket.

For the sound-details, panorama etc of course, you need something like
this:

Loki Fuego wrote:In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.


The Sennheiser HD-650 truly overwhelms you with stereo-width and details. Good for listening and the joy. But bad for the first mix. :wink:


Heh...
http://simultalk.homestead.com/musiccube.html
That's what I'm using for rough mixing. Only after I get everything sounding right on that thing, I switch to my HD-650. And frankly speaking, by that time my mix won't need too much work. Some panning, maybe some low end treatment and couple of tweaks here and there.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
camsr
KVRAF
 
4464 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:35 pm

Loki Fuego wrote:
enroe wrote:
Loki Fuego wrote:After mixing plenty of stuff on headphones, I can say, that the only real benefit of mixing on monitors is that it's much quicker. When mixing on headphones your hear a lot of stuff, which would go unnoticed everywhere else.


I would recommend to buy very cheap headphones for mixing. I mean headphones that do NOT reveal every detail, but instead give you a coarse overview. You'll get the volume levels and everything else much quicker into the right relation with cheap headphones. Such headphones you'll get for 10$/€ in every supermarket.

For the sound-details, panorama etc of course, you need something like
this:

Loki Fuego wrote:In any case it's better to buy Sennheiser HD-650, than a similarly priced monitors.


The Sennheiser HD-650 truly overwhelms you with stereo-width and details. Good for listening and the joy. But bad for the first mix. :wink:


Heh...
http://simultalk.homestead.com/musiccube.html
That's what I'm using for rough mixing. Only after I get everything sounding right on that thing, I switch to my HD-650. And frankly speaking, by that time my mix won't need too much work. Some panning, maybe some low end treatment and couple of tweaks here and there.


You wouldn't happen to do sound design on that also would you? I would think there is way more distortion than necessary.
Image
Loki Fuego
KVRian
 
641 posts since 30 Aug, 2011, from somewhere in universe

Postby Loki Fuego; Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:56 am

camsr wrote:You wouldn't happen to do sound design on that also would you? I would think there is way more distortion than necessary.

Nope. I do all sound design on HD650. That makes sure that all my sounds play well together (without any additional treatment) in the first place.
I switch to that musical cube when I'm done arranging.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
User avatar
musikmachine
KVRAF
 
8304 posts since 2 Oct, 2006, from ,Location, Location

Postby musikmachine; Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:08 am

This guy used HD600s http://mixerlt.blogspot.com/p/showcase.html

Said his last two mixes were done on the HD600s but he checks the mixes on other sources. A few engineers seem to favour them including Bob Katz. So i guess the answer is yes it can be done if you learn your phones and check mixes. Mixing secrets is worth picking up as it covers the pros and cons of mixing on low end monitors vs headphones in an untreated room. :)
User avatar
abstractcats
KVRAF
 
3038 posts since 19 Aug, 2008, from USA-lien In the 8th Dimention

Postby abstractcats; Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:35 am

I'm torn, I've used $20 headphones and got some really good results. I use $100 KRKs at the moment and feel VERY good about my mixes. My mixing skills are not as good as the KRKs but I feel the better headphones are making a difference in learning what to listen to so my mixing skills get better. I do want a good pair of studio monitors. But the phone what I must use as I have roommates.
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