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Any FM in u-he's future?

Official support for: u-he.com

Moderator: Urs

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Urs
u-he
 
16965 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin
 

Postby Urs; Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:21 pm

KBSoundSmith wrote:Anyway, the actual topic is FM, right? Yay, FM! :wheee:

I'm actually thinking, if we added external side chaining and two knobs to Zebra's FMOs we could possibly add gazillions of possibilities. That, and maybe steal that "tap the map" option from ACE for FMOs and LFOs, and we would've cut the number of feature requests in half. Or so. Almost.

(no estimated release date)
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KVRist
 
71 posts since 12 May, 2005, from Finger Lakes, NY, US
 

Postby groundhum; Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:23 am

Urs wrote:(no estimated release date)


:D
Most people wouldn't know good music if it bit them in the ass. –FZ
KVRist
 
445 posts since 6 Jul, 2009

Postby KBSoundSmith; Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:26 am

Urs wrote:
KBSoundSmith wrote:Anyway, the actual topic is FM, right? Yay, FM! :wheee:

...if we added external side chaining and two knobs to Zebra's FMOsually thinking, we could possibly add gazillions of possibilities....

(no estimated release date)


Whenever it comes, that will be pretty exciting.
KVRist
 
40 posts since 14 Feb, 2012

Postby Rimwolf; Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:59 am

Urs wrote:I'm actually thinking, if we added external side chaining and two knobs to Zebra's FMOs we could possibly add gazillions of possibilities.


Sounds great!

Er, what would the two knobs do?
KVRist
 
496 posts since 2 Jun, 2004, from Tellus
 

Postby eXode; Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:10 am

Maybe we'll know more after Musikmesse 2012!? :)

Urs wrote:The big news are not necessarily related to new products that come out at the day. It's more like that "Hell Froze Over" type of thing, and actually at least two of those. Imagine something along the lines of "Roland licenses D-50 waveforms to u-he" or "Eric Persing contributes Zebra patches", but neither of those it is (even though I wouldn't mind any of these to happen as well)

;) Urs
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Urs
u-he
 
16965 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin
 

Postby Urs; Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:34 pm

eXode wrote:Maybe we'll know more after Musikmesse 2012!? :)

Urs wrote:The big news are not necessarily related to new products that come out at the day. It's more like that "Hell Froze Over" type of thing, and actually at least two of those. Imagine something along the lines of "Roland licenses D-50 waveforms to u-he" or "Eric Persing contributes Zebra patches", but neither of those it is (even though I wouldn't mind any of these to happen as well)

;) Urs

Hahaha... you *must* know something. And if you do, I guess you might be right.
KVRist
 
496 posts since 2 Jun, 2004, from Tellus
 

Postby eXode; Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:23 pm

Urs wrote:
eXode wrote:Maybe we'll know more after Musikmesse 2012!? :)

Urs wrote:The big news are not necessarily related to new products that come out at the day. It's more like that "Hell Froze Over" type of thing, and actually at least two of those. Imagine something along the lines of "Roland licenses D-50 waveforms to u-he" or "Eric Persing contributes Zebra patches", but neither of those it is (even though I wouldn't mind any of these to happen as well)

;) Urs

Hahaha... you *must* know something. And if you do, I guess you might be right.


Messe can't come soon enough... :)
Last edited by eXode on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Urs
u-he
 
16965 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin
 

Postby Urs; Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:02 am

eXode wrote:Messe can't come soon enough... :)

Absolutely. Our studio drowns in chaos. Yesterday we got the trussing system delivered. We decided to buy our own rather than rent because it pays off after about 2 shows. The kitchen is becoming a workshop for case building. Clemens and Fritz are sussing our bare bones systems with parts flying all over the place. And then there's front plates, potentiometers, packages with resistors and all sorts of things everywhere. Next week we shall get delivery of bags, brochures, usb sticks (in nice gift boxes).
KVRist
 
495 posts since 20 Apr, 2004, from hki-fi
 

Postby tetsuneko; Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:08 am

Urs wrote:I'm actually thinking, if we added external side chaining and two knobs to Zebra's FMOs we could possibly add gazillions of possibilities. That, and maybe steal that "tap the map" option from ACE for FMOs and LFOs, and we would've cut the number of feature requests in half. Or so. Almost.

(no estimated release date)


Sounds most excellent to me good sir!
KVRer
 
8 posts since 20 Apr, 2004

Postby proto39; Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:12 am

[quote="Urs"]I was bidding for FS1Rs on ebay couplatimes, but never won.

My main interest is, how do those formant things work? Are they merely bandpass filters behind each oscillator that do a similar thing as keytracking?

Or is each operator either a bandpass filter or an oscillator?
[/quote]

I have an FS1r in my studio. It's a very cool device indeed, but a little cumbersome to edit via the frontpanel.

Luckily there is a program here http://synth-voice.sakura.ne.jp/fs1r_ed ... glish.html

That program should be able to run without an Fs1r attached, so it can give you a good idea of how an FS1r runs internally. I can also fill you in on any other details on the FS1r, since I very familiar with it.

From what I remember there are quite a few operator oscillators you can choose from. Formant happens to be one of them... There is also a typical Sine operator and then few that are basically a sine fundamental with added odd, even, or both harmonics dropping off significantly. It basically sounds like a bandpassed saw/square. The formant is basically the same deal except that you can change the nuances of the bandpass filter via parameters. So you can basically have a wide bandpass narrow off while changing the slope of drop-off, etc. All this can be controlled by velocity, keytracking, Mod Wheel, etc. Sounds cooler than it actually is IMHO. :)

I personally found the formant stuff to be marginally usable and instead depended more on typical sine modulating sine type stuff. Each 'voice' (of which the fs1r has 4!) of the Fs1r can have up to 16 operators: 8 voiced (pitched oscillators) and 8 non-voiced (AKA noise through a bandpass). For most purposes, I was able to get good 'vox type' sounds without using any of the formant oscillators.

As far as FM sounds are concerned, the Fs1r is a superior to anything FM I've used in the software realm. When I started playing with the FMOps in Zebra, I immediately thought about how cool it would be to try fs1r type stuff and run it through Zebra's superior filter section.

Zebra is still overall a much more versatile synth.
KVRist
 
496 posts since 2 Jun, 2004, from Tellus
 

Postby eXode; Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:45 am

Hum de doo (posted in wrong thread).
KVRian
 
734 posts since 26 Jul, 2009

Postby olikana; Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:19 pm

taken from a thread in instruments
regarding FM7/FM8 vs the yamaha's
aciddose wrote:well, their primary waveform and scaling isn't the same as in the YM series chips and so the end timbre doesn't sound as rich. it tends to have a more "plastic" timbre with less harmonic content.

i would say a really nice fm synthesizer as vst doesn't exist, period.


aciddose wrote: i haven't used a tg77 myself, but the YM chips sound much better than fm7/8 because fm7/8 uses different base waveforms, different depth tables and so on.

with some presets it's difficult to tell the difference, with others it's extremely obvious. if you start making your own presets being used to using a dx-7 or any other YM-x based synth it's a very different experience.

while the authors of fm7/8 emulated the most popular presets fairly well (i can only say "fairly") once you go off the well trodden path it doesn't match up anymore.

this is especially important if you're doing the "FM" sounds. not just a guitar a flute or an organ sound as in some of the presets. lots of feedback, extremes of modulation depth, complicated envelope use (taking advantage of "bugs" or weird effects) won't work correctly in most of the 'emulators' available as vst.

which is strange, because dosbox and mame both have very nice emulations of these chips. the mame emulator i believe is even supposed to produce bit-for-bit accurate output if it's run at the correct rate.



i fully agree with this developer's comments.

u-he were first to get it right with the analo?gs (with diva)....maybe they can be the first to nail the yamaha's digitals too.
even a basic rick hastley's never gonna give you up dx7 bass doesn't sound right in Fm7.
all punchy dx basses lose all their punch and bite when imported in the various softwares...obviously something ain't right with hamronics/transients results. with tight settings it feels like a smudged copy of the original .
JPQ
KVRian
 
971 posts since 7 Jan, 2008, from Finland

Postby JPQ; Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:24 am

rockin1 wrote:
Howard wrote:
Sendy wrote: Once you go beyond a tickler being tickled by a tickler I start to lose any grip on the outcome :cry:
I guess that's why I'm happy with just four operators and four potential modulators with non-sine-based waveforms... It covers a huge ground as it is...
+1


Very true, but not some well known ground the FS1R is capable of... Also, FM is hard enough on its own. It benefits greatly from a UI designed around FM. Regardless of how anyone feels about the sound, I think most would agree that FM8 does a nice job of making it easier to see what is going on. This is something that isn't likely to come in a modular or semi-modular. It requires a synth focused on FM...


To me and fm blue is clearly better than fm8. even better presets etc. only good point in fm8 loads old Yamaha patches...
ps. must ahve good point i mean.
KVRian
 
734 posts since 26 Jul, 2009

Postby olikana; Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:12 am

Urs did u read my previous post above with the quotes from aciddose? to get the same sound as the yamaha's it's essential that these points are taken care of in any future project/implemetation.
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Urs
u-he
 
16965 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin
 

Postby Urs; Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:32 am

olikana wrote:Urs did u read my previous post above with the quotes from aciddose? to get the same sound as the yamaha's it's essential that these points are taken care of in any future project/implemetation.

Well. I don't believe in everything AD says. Those earthshattering differences might as well be the result of aliasing, imagination and what not - effects all of which we want to avoid.

That said, my motivation to do emulations of any DX/SY series device is fairly limited :oops:
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