Sylenth1 - Reason Rack Extension?

[fisherKing]

Right, also updating a plugin they created...how long ago? and giving it the support it needs drives away the money that could have been made ON TOP of that good reason.

I have chosen not to buy - or even consider - Sylenth1 because regardless of what Lennard says...it's dead. Until he gives it a real, deserved, update, it sounds like quite a waste of money when there are many better support plugins out that that may very well exceed Sylenth.

Just out of interest... people are always shouting for updates for their purchased synths... why would it need an update? Are there bugs to be fixed? Or are you expecting it to be a work in progress, like the u-he synths, with added features on every new version? If it's the first point then i gotta say, if you purchase a plugin, you pay for what it is right now. I don't think any developper has the duty of updating his stuff if it's working fine, unless it's his firm policy.

64bit AU for mac. S1 is the ONLY plugin i have left that hasn't migrated to 64bit. i use it in logic, with logic's 32bit bridge, which crashes regularly.

PLUS...there are soundbanks that require the last beta of S1, and that version does not run well on Lion.

so...yes, S1 NEEDS to be updated.

[chk071]

Ok, fair enough to ask for an update then.

[CT]

Though I voted yes, I really should have voted "don't care".

Twin 2 and Dune have made S1 completely redundant for me, and I no longer find it useful. I wish my license wasnt nfr so I could sell it.

And the dev posted here about 2 months back saying that S1 is not dead. I dont think the customer support is great, and he was quite grumpy in his reply. S1 is nice, but its not the ultimate synth (not even close), so Ive ditched it and moved on.

[VariKusBrainZ]

If they use the same licencing policy as ReWire then thatll stop alot of devs jumping on board

[SonicDimension]

I would absolutely love to have a rack extension port of Sylenth1. I think one of the more important things Reason lacks is a great-sounding but simple subtractive synth for 'bread and butter' sounds.

Subtractor is simple and fast to work with (and is also light on the CPU like Sylenth1), but I don't like the way it sounds. I guess it must be the crap filters. Thor is more capable at producing decent analog sounds, but using it for basic sounds often seems like overkill because it has so many options. Also, although the filters on Thor sound better than the filters on Subtractor, they still don't sound that great to me. And Thor does not have very snappy envelopes or any way to change the curve on the envelope stages.

Sylenth1 has the right interface and balance of features to facilitate an efficient workflow and create useful sounds quickly. And the basic components-- oscillators, filters, envelopes-- sound terrific. Even the built-in effects are cool because you can quickly dial in some basic settings and experiment rather than always having to set up and tweak separate effects while you are building the sound.

I guess there is not much hope that it will ever make it into the Reason rack, but the developer should definitely know that there are a lot of Reason users who love Sylenth1 and would pay to have an RE version.

[eXode]

i'm a former reason user...do they allow ANY 3rd-party plugins? thought that reason was self-contained, and DID NOT support outside plugins...?????

Did you sleep under a rock during Frankfurt Musik Messe 2012? :)

Propellerhead kicked off the messe by announcing Rack Extensions, their own propriety format that will allow 3rd party developers to make their own rack devices for Reason. These devices will only be sold through an "App Store" type online store that propellerhead will run and can be purchased (as I understand) directly from within Reason. Reason 6.5 will be a free update for owners of Reason 6 and will introduce the support for the Rack Extensions.

There has been a lot of buzz on the internet about this...

Confirmed developers for Rack Extensions (RE) so far:

GForce Software
KORG
Peff
Softube
Sonic Charge
Sugar Bytes
u-he

[MFXxx]

I still dont get why they dont just simply allow a bridge for vst or vst support. I own reason, Sylenth1 and use via rewire, I dont get the point in buying further licenses to use vst already in the kit. To cynical me it appears more of a business ruse than customer support. I am sure there are many end users like myself that have given up hope of Reason supporting vsts, a timeless exhausted request/arguement but here we see a reversal on the Props terms.

Is there something technically impossible or incompatible, surely if they can introduce RE why not just support vsts?

Madness, from an end user/consumer p.o.v. I can see only the business advantage. Props gain business from allowing devs to sell recoded vsts on their format in their store.
Also I do see how this is good for developers business; new market for ¨€£$'s. But if a plugin is in standard 2.4 vst or even only VST3 why not develop a RE bridge and latency compensation.

Why have Props made this so complicated I am sure it's something I don't understand and missing?

[adamszabo]

One word: $

[eXode]

It's going to be hard to reply to this without sounding like a fan boy (and I admit that I am a fan boy). :)

Of course it's about the $ in the end. Propellerhead is a company after all.
However I think that propellerhead have done something interesting. Not revolutionary or groundbreaking, but interesting.

From what I understand there will be an "App Store" type shop that will be available directly from Reason so that you can purchase Rack Extensions directly from within the software. You will only be able to get RE's from this sotre. Props will take 30% of the cut (which has been criticized by many) and for that they provide with hosting, distribution, shop solution, copy protection and cross-platform compatibility.

The Rack Extensions will be complete Reason citizens, meaning that things like "undo" work from within the host and is not dependent of the actual plugin. Another thing that this means is that developers can put in audio inputs and outputs as well as CV I/O on these Rack Extensions. The RE's have to conform to the Reason rack in width and also I think that it has to be similar in looks as well (not exactly but not too far out either).

The RE's are sand boxed which means that they can't bring the host down and it's very difficult for them to crash (not impossible but difficult).

On the topic of licenses, it will be up to the developer if they want to offer a crossgrade or rebate if you already own a RE as VSTi or similar.

I personally like the idea, I like the idea of getting RE's that allow full Reason connectivity with CV etc. And my personal hope is that plugin developers will not stick to making ports of existing plugins but that they actually consider making new plugins that are unique for the Reason Environment or at least primarily developed with Rack Extensions in mind. Also I think that it's a bold move by propellerhead to do this, only time will tell if it worked out for them.

Also I don't think it has to do with technical aspects, it's about control and propellerhead's vision of what Reason is. Another VST capable host is not what Reason is, apparently. Either you use Reason and love it because of it's strengths with regards to routing options of audio and CV, or you want VST/AU plugins and then I'd recommend anyone to get another host that will give you that.

My 2c. :)

I still dont get why they dont just simply allow a bridge for vst or vst support. I own reason, Sylenth1 and use via rewire, I dont get the point in buying further licenses to use vst already in the kit. To cynical me it appears more of a business ruse than customer support. I am sure there are many end users like myself that have given up hope of Reason supporting vsts, a timeless exhausted request/arguement but here we see a reversal on the Props terms.

Is there something technically impossible or incompatible, surely if they can introduce RE why not just support vsts?

Madness, from an end user/consumer p.o.v. I can see only the business advantage. Props gain business from allowing devs to sell recoded vsts on their format in their store.
Also I do see how this is good for developers business; new market for ¨€£$'s. But if a plugin is in standard 2.4 vst or even only VST3 why not develop a RE bridge and latency compensation.

Why have Props made this so complicated :( I am sure it's something I don't understand and missing?

[CT]

Well one reason why is simply because theyre not vst's, and I think PH is hoping that sooner or later all prospective customers start to see this.
Just imagine the reason rack as it is now, but with a lot more flexibility and a lot more "modules" to choose from, and this is probably where this is going to go.
eXode already mentioned the audio and cv in/outs and the gui requirements, and Im basically hoping that developers are more creative than to simply port existing vst's. Over time, I would hope that no more than 10-20% of the available rack extensions are ports of existing plugins. This imho would be much more interesting, and also probably more profitable for PH. Also, I think there might be some difficulty in porting existing plugins, as Urs mentioned that it would be difficult to port zebra and diva, though I think he also did say that its too early to tell. Though I would love to see an RE version of ACE.

[MFXxx]

As a thought is it possible to use something like vsthost or a vst standalone outside of reason and use a midi out port from reason to control it and an audio in to receive the audio from the vst (just a quick out of the box thought on the matter). I like reason and love the routing as I mentioned before, but I just end up using Cubase for production and reason is sitting unused ?:(

@exode no not sounding a fanboy at all....

Its all a rational and objective point of view discussion.

[CT]

As a thought is it possible to use something like vsthost or a vst standalone outside of reason and use a midi out port from reason to control it and an audio in to receive the audio from the vst (just a quick out of the box thought on the matter)

MIDI OUT is conspicuously still missing in Reason, as of version 6. There is however a workaround by peff.com that works by converting CV to MIDI data.

[christ8449]

I'd love Sylenth1 in reason

We're just going to have to wait and see how propheads do the whole rack extensions thing. Not sure how easy it's going to be to port 'character' synths.

The reason synths are excellent, but I do find myself using a different DAW with VSTs just to get some more diversity. If I'm being honest with myself the synths in reason could probably do everything I want them to...but sometimes a new interface, with different filters, GUI and new presets helps with creativity.

I'd love a bunch of rack extension synths in reason just remains to be seen how it all turns out. I'd hate to give away the rock solid stability of reason, so I understand they can't slam the doors wide open...(they of course want to make money also)

[Ameyah Audio]

and you guys propelerhead will care that what you guys want?
they have their own dope synths as it was already.

[eXode]

and you guys propelerhead will care that what you guys want?
they have their own dope synths as it was already.

What on earth are you talking about?